Comfort + Steering Feel
 

I had been seriously considering trading in for a WRX, but decided to hold on to the BRZ for another while yet - and get some goodies for it.

They aren't completely worn out yet, but I'm ready to move on from the stock Primacies and I'm having trouble making a call because I'm comparing tires across segments. Nothing is ever reviewed as if someone would ever think of comparing a UHP summer with a HP summer or UHP all season.

So far I'm most interested in:
- Michelin PSS (I know, PS4s, but it isn't coming out anytime soon in stock size - so no)
- Michelin PS AS3+ (@Tcoat ...)
- Continental ExtremeContact Sport

Priorities are:
- Grip - at least as much as stock
- Steering feel - at least as good as stock
- Quieter
- Better ride

I don't care if I end up with a summer or an all-season as I run dedicated winters. All seasons would be a little more convenient in the shoulder seasons.

I'm not chasing grip like most people here are and I'm not going to be adding power to the car. That makes it difficult to search for similar topics. I'm leaning towards the AS3+, but I'm concerned about whether I would lose steering response/feel. Everything I read about the MPSS and Contis are that they ride great and are quiet, but its always followed up with "...for the grip they provide". Are those tires genuinely quieter and smoother riding than stock?

Do you guys have any feedback on these (or other) tires in regards to how they might line up with my goals?

Have run the PSS on a couple of cars and the PS3+ is miles ahead of them in all categories for a DD. The steering is firmed up a tad over stock with zero loss of feel or response. And as I have said several times they are so damned quiet it is uncanny (compared to stock or the PSS used on other cars). Do not let the AS designation fool you they are a great performance tire. You can also extend your season by a couple of months which is a bonus in avoiding the hazard of running summer tires in a sudden cold snap. I am a huge fan.
Never tried the Continentals so have no opinion on them.

That is my two cents worth now prepare to be deluged with conflicting info as everybody pushes their own preferences.

Love my AS3+'s!

Unfortunately I haven't had them on long enough for an elaborate review. So far they feel significantly better compared to the Primacies without a doubt in terms of grip and ride quality. They only con I noticed was the tire felt more hard, so bumps were more noticeable.

Also they were good in the light snow we had in april

Have not tried the Sports, but I am on the DW's (in 205/45-17 size). The Continentals do have a softer sidewall and you can feel the fine precise responsiveness differance from the stock Michelins. You still get good feeling and responsiveness but it's in a different manner. What the Continentals give you instead is what feels like an absolute grounded grip on the road that is extremely hard to get out of shape even when pushing HARD. The stock Michelin's are very nervous at the limits, not as grounded/secure in feeling.

With the Michelins it's constant correction to steering input to keep the car in line, while the Continentals is pretty much make your initial turn in and hold the steering position while getting on the throttle to slingshot right through a turn. You still feel what the car is doing, but it's not the constant directional change the Michelin's are trying to do. It's a different but more fun way to corner to me. Much better for canyon runs and road course HPDE's than stock or even other higher performance tires I've tried.

Pretty sure the Sports will be the next tire to try on my FR-S.

It's been a long while but I think my PSS are louder than the stock Primacy and are a bit stiffer, sounds like you want the AS3+

I've had Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ for over a year now (since April 2015) and now has 15,000 miles roughly. Compared to stock tires, Primacy, the grip is more than stock, quieter in terms of road noise, and is a little bit more comfortable over bumps and stuff. When these tires were brand new, it was hard to slide the rear end, now a year later, it's still hard to slide the rear end but it's getting easier as they get worn. Tires under panic stops is more confident inspiring along with driving in the wet compared to stock. I literally drove through puddles of at least 3 inches of rain with AS3+ and no issues of hydroplaning during the odd day of LA flooding.

However, I do notice that the car bounces on uneven pavement that I'm not quite sure was there on stock? Maybe a stiffer sidewall? Another downfall is MPG, I'm averaging I think 23 compared to about 25 before on old stock tires.

I do drive the car hard but no tracking on tires. I can't speak of MPSS or Continentals.

Appreciate the replies everyone. It really does sound like the AS3+ are what I'm looking for. I can live with a slight fuel economy hit. I'm going to do a little bit more research to see if anything else is out there with a better ride, as it seems like the AS3+ are a wash compared to the Primacies. I'm expecting that the tradeoffs won't be worth it though.

I'm struggling to understand why Michelin manufactures the Primacy HP along with the AS3+ honestly.

Going to pull the trigger on some W-rated Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+. Tire rebates are set to expire here on Sunday.

I will add for anyone that might be referencing this thread in the future that the Pirelli P Zero All-Season Plus also looks like an excellent tire. Many reviews compare it favourably to the Michelin as a better compromise for a daily drive tire.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=216

I noted the following when looking at reviews of the Pirelli, which caused me to choose the AS3+ instead:
- I couldn't find anyone with an FRS/BRZ/86 that had used this tire
- Clear loss of steering feel/response compared to Michelin Pilot Sport AS3
- No rim protection at all, to the point that the tire looks narrower than the rim
- Overall narrow tread compared to other tires of the same section
- Lots of people unable to get more than 15000 miles before wear bars

If I had found some favourable reviews of that tire on one of the twins, I might have been swayed with the chance to gain ride quality. I'm also a sucker for steering feel through, and I'm not willing to compromise there.

Enjoy~

Initial impressions so far of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3+:
- Definitely more overall grip than Primacies
- Quieter, but not quite as much as I had hoped. My Primacies weren't as worn as others when swapped though. (6/32"-7/32")
- Ride is the same, but there is more road feel. I consider this a good thing.
- Steering feel is slightly different. I wouldn't say better or worse, just that this tire has a different characteristic to the steering feel/response.

Give'em a chance they'll feel better after u put a couple 100mi on them. I would check air pressure. I had to add air after install which changed things up, in a good way. They were initially under-inflated. Shit was all wobbley... Since its an all season i guess it takes longer to get down to the primary compound?

Rays and Pilot Sport AS3+

Sexy

weird i think the PSS is really soft like more then PS3+.. Maybe cuz the weather in vegas?

The chane in road feel is what I called "firmed up" before. Not sure it is the most accurate term but was the best I could come up with.
My Primacies were toast and noisy as hell so maybe that is why I noticed more difference.
I have found that they get a tiny bit bouncy after a long haul in very hot weather but it isn't horrid.
After a coup,e of thousand kilometres I still think they are the best tires I have ever used on a car.

The only significant difference between the Supersports and the A/S3 is the rubber compound. All season tires operate in a lower ideal temperature range than the summer tire version.

Pirelli used the same method when designing its high performance winter tire and the high performance all season tire. The carcass is basically same.

If you drive where ambient temperatures are routinely warm, 20C or more, then summer tires will deliver better performance. As it gets cooler the high performance all season is now the better choice. Five years ago that was not the case.

One interesting aspect of the new Michelin all season 3 is the relative low density of siping. To help compensate for this the grooves are molded with a micro saw tooth pattern internal to the tread grooves. For a high performance tire with so little siping the performance in light snow is remarkably good. Not so good on ice.

Pirelli apparently decided in favour of better warm weather performance and less competence on snow or ice, based on the tire rack comparison test. My next set of "summer tires " will likely be those Pirellis as I run winters for winter.

I'm looking to go back to the laser sharp feel of the primacies but this is the first time I've heard an all season being better than a summer tire. How exactly does it have more grip with a 3 season tread pattern?

Also how many miles can I expect from the as3?

The Pilot A/S3+ is built on the Pilot carcass is how they did it. Michelins patented variable contact patch technology is the same on both the Supersports (and now the 4s) and the A/S3+. They call it VCP 2.0

Plus Michelin gets the compound pliability using their newer Helios compound (in French it is huile de tournesol) vegetable oil apparently makes rubber softer stronger at the same time. Nokian discovered the same effect from canola oil. Sumitomo Tire (Dunlop outside the US) made the initial discovery.

Under some ambient temperature conditions the A/S3 is actually a better performer.

Don't worry about miles. Worry about age. After four years all tires deteriorate noticeably. After 6 years all tires are junk. After seven years you're taking chances with your life. So, rarely will your tires wear out before they need changing anyway. Bonus if you buy brand new from Michelin, they say their latest Helios compound is so tough Michelin estimates their tires will age out first.

I've always wondered about the stability of the PSS but I'm too scared to lose the response in favor of the grip. AS3 sounds like a great choice.

Edit:
You guys have me sold on these tires now. On tire rack there are 4 different sets of AS3s though..any reason not to go for the closeout price?

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/TireSea...ceFilter=400#0

Also why not consider the premier AS?

You're comparing a UHP tire to a eco summer tire. It's harder to break traction on the AS3+.

You can expect 45k miles.

These tires have very good handling except when really hot out. I would not use them if you spend a good part of the year over 85 or so. Other than that I love the things for street driving and would be hard pressed to change now.

The tires we have been referencing are the Pilot AS3 PLUS. That Plus is important since the AS3s are an older tech and not nearly as good a tire (according to reviews I have no first hand knowledge of the 3). Don't get the wrong ones by accident.

While I have not used my FR-S on track or HPDE, I love the way the PSS handle those tight corners and emergency moves with extreme confidence. However, you do have to stay aware as the road can move the car around... apparently due to having so much grip.

Panic stops and hydroplaning are no issue for the PSS either. Love that safety factor.

However, I think I may try the AS3+ soon as maybe, maybe enjoy a more civil ride... Or, completely waste the remaining thread on the PSS during a track event?

Do they get floppy in high heat? I need to stick with LRR summers if the performance is that detrimental in heat.

Not "floppy" but they do loosen up just a bit. They are no where near as bad as other AS tires I have used in the heat since they are indeed a UHP tire. The AS compromise is not bad but still there. Don't think you will take much of a hit for even heavy street driving but I would not use them myself if I was tracking where it gets really hot.

The AS3+ is a more complaint ride. If you're die-hard performance than the MPSS is for you. But i think they're stopping the MPSS line.

Little update, since I've just recently taken these off and put my winter tires on.

- Noticing a very slight decrease in fuel economy
- After using them for a while, running them in, and switching to my winter tires, I can definitely say these are much quieter than the Primacies were. People I talk to using bluetooth noticed right away when I put the AS3+ on.
- Significant increase in overall grip compared to Primacies (as a daily street tire, not sure about track).
- Track better on the highway than the Primacies did.

I never used to feel that I was taking a huge performance hit when I'd switch my Primacies out for X-ices, but this year was different having the AS3+. I should've waited a few more weeks. The AS3+ were still perfectly happy at the temperatures we are seeing on the east coast, and my winters are running too hot right now.

Now onto winter #5 for my Michelin X-Ice Xi3's.