What coilovers should I purchase?
 

So im not too sure what kind of coilovers to get for my '13 FRS. I daily drive my car and don't participate in any track or drift events, so im not looking at coils that are too expensive, maybe in the range of 1000-1300CAD. I was looking at BC Racing ER Coils and the TEIN Flex Z's but im not too sure im even looking at the right coils

Why are you buying coilovers if you're just daily driving?

Generally: the cheaper the coilover, the worse the ride. It's an easy way to ruin the ride quality of your car by buying cheap pick-your-favorite-color coilovers.

im trying to fit bigger wheels on my car and to simply lower it

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67345

If you're still determined to do whatever it is you were planning on there's lots of name brand stuff out there in your budget that gets good reviews and vendors that will help out if something goes awry, best of luck.

Personally I think the ride in the flex z is more compliant than bc

Tein Flex Z / end thread.

PM'd you

The MeisterR ZetaCRD+ Coilovers is another one that is close to your budget due to the recent group buy.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117150

http://www.meisterr.co.uk/Pics/Post/FRS/FRS1.jpg

There are lot of options, so this is just another one to consider. :)

Jerrick

If that's your budget, just buy a couple sets of really good tires instead. Look at coilovers when you can triple your budget and buy something worth buying.
You can't even replace the mass produced OE parts, which are the most cost effectively made option available, for that budget.

Not enough money. That will get you four Bilstein B6 from the Canadian retailer (google Bilstein) and a 20 mm front roll bar including installation. Factory springs are fine with these shocks.

If you want to improve both the ride and handling drop down to your Subaru dealer and buy a pair of 2017 rear springs. You will get better performance over the bumps and better balance front to rear. Cheapest and most effective spring upgrade you can make is install just a set of 2017 rear springs.

With 2017 rear springs even the Primacy tires will be ok.

The car doesn't benefit from larger wheels.

If you want to lower the car just buy a set of lowering springs compatible with the factory shocks. The factory offers a set of Eibach made springs. There are other suppliers.

Coilovers are total overkill for this car unless you intend to actually adjust them for different purposes. The car is actually low enough to perform very well without shorter springs but Subaru/Toyota designed it from the start to be compatible with a one half inch to one inch drop which they then offered a spring set for. There was even a factory special offered either lowering springs in some market.

Forget coilovers.

what

STOP POSTING

Tein Flex Z is what I'll be going for most likely, they're $1169+tax at FT86motorsports.com, which is within your budget. If you take it to a shop, you're looking at 4 hours of labour to install them and another 2 hours or so (this can vary) to do the alignment. So your total would run up to about 2K cad.

The MeisterR ZetaCRD+ Coilovers mentioned up top, are going to be a great buy in your price range. Especially with the group buy going on right now, but you have to get on it before they run out. Also the Tein Flex Z are a great buy for there price, CSG Mike did a great review of them. There is review of all these all over this forum. Also there is a thread in the suspension section on coilovers, check it out.

If you want to lower the car then just fit lowering springs. By definition, coilovers cannot be the right Spring and damper combination except over a narrow RS GE of damper settings.

Ride height is a pita to adjust and return to the original chosen settings. Therefore, people rarely adjust their coilovers.

If you aren't going to adjust them periodically then you don't need them. There are a wide variety of springs available for fixed ride height cars. It is easy to find a set of dampers to match, almost every spring supplier knows what dampers to recommend, or should.

Only if you intend to change the ride height for different driving purposes do coilovers make any sense. Adjusting damper rates correctly requires a high level of expertise and knowledge of use of a lap timer.

Is no one capable of working on their own car anymore?

OP just get some Flex Zs, they are not difficult to adjust in the slightest, please ignore this nonsense, you simply spin the collars and lock down the jam nut. 1 step.

I think you're getting just a tad carried away here.

That is demonstrably false. It depends on what you want out of the car. For example, the car absolutely benefits from wider wheels and tires if you participate in autocross, and even on fun, twisty back roads. Some people want sweet, drifty-drifty action. Others favor ultimate grip.

Agreed that lowering springs are a good idea, especially if you're on a budget, but if you want wider wheels, then those aren't really an option after a certain point.

Well first off, there's the issue already mentioned that you kind of NEED coilovers if you fit wider tires. But there's also the fact that they are NOT overkill if you intend to fit wider and stickier tires, because they can outpace the stock suspension. Try having fun on 245 section RE71Rs with the stock suspension. The same suspension that feels firm and composed on the stock tires suddenly feels soft and sloppy. Suspension needs to be tuned to the tires and grip levels the car generates. Significantly increase the available grip, and you need to improve the suspension.

The stock suspension is fantastic, but that doesn't mean coilovers don't have their place, or are in any way "overkill" for every scenario. Quite the contrary.

Unless you need to fit wider tires and still get useful amounts of camber, or want to reduce body roll with much stickier tires, or want to be able to stiffen up the suspension at an autocross, but then soften it up for daily driving afterwards, or...

I live in an apartment, parking is outside, no garage, tools of any kind, no time either. And I'd rather let the professionals do it than install it blind, then make a thread asking people what I did wrong lol.

You might explain how coilovers allow wider wheels when lowering springs do not.

Stock wheels and tires weigh about 42 lbs, much lighter than any reasonable alternative. Wider wheels are heavier and require wider tires. Larger wheels are heavier. On a car this low on power it's hard to see how more rubber is going to be better. Even with 260 hp I find 225/45x17 perfectly fine.

I'll stick by my assertion that larger wheels are of no benefit to this car. Stock wheels will be fine with a 225 section tire. There are no benefits to going any wider and nothing to be gained by going larger diameter.

Lowering the car and fitting larger wheels do not require coilovers. The factory proved that with one or more of their option packages.

Dude can you just stop posting advice on topics that you have no experience on?

If you had actually seen a set of coilovers in real life, it would become obvious why they provide more clearance.

@Stang70Fastback Don't waste your time.

You sound like you're making a whole lot of assumptions based on "intuition" without having much [if any] experience. In fact, I'm starting to suspect that you are a troll, but in good faith:

If you're honestly asking this question, then that can only mean that you're attempting to offer feedback and advice on a subject which you understand very little, if at all. Stock struts are much wider than aftermarket coilovers. You can only go so wide before you hit the spring perch. Yes, you can fit a 9" wide wheel on the stock suspension, but the tire will poke significantly from behind the fender, even on the highest offset you can fit. At that high offset, you will have ZERO room to add ANY amount of camber, and you need some camber if you want the car properly set up to take advantage of the wider tires and higher grip levels. You could mount a lower offset tire, but then you'll run into mexipoke issues, and you will also rub the insides of the fenders/firewall.

Coilovers allow you to add a higher offset wheel, which means no ugly poking wheel. The also allow you to add a few degrees of camber. Basically they eliminate the issues you run into with the stock suspension when fitting wider tires than stock.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the stock 17x7 wheels are HEAVY because they are not optimized for weight. They are optimized for cost and mass-production. The stock 17x7 wheels weigh over 20 LBS. My 18x9 wheels weigh a hair LESS than the stock 17x7 wheels, and my 17x9 wheels that I use for autocross weigh several LBS less than the stock wheels. So again, it sounds like you're just making assumptions without actually doing any research.

You can say "it's hard to see how more power will be better" all you want, but unless you've actually tried it, what you are stating is just an opinion, and not fact. The fact is a car with 9" wide wheels will be faster around an autocross course than a car with 7" wide wheels. I'm not sure what power has to do with anything. We aren't talking about putting power down. No you don't need a wider tire to put the power down that this car generates. However, this is a MOMENTUM car. The whole point of this car is to carry speed through corners in order to make up for the power deficit. What's one way to carry more speed through a corner? A wider tire.

A larger diameter is purely for show. I will agree with you there. (It does improve the response time of the tire due to the shorter sidewall, but it generally isn't worth the trade-off for purely performance reasons on this car.) However, there are plenty of benefits to a WIDER tire. Just because you don't believe this doesn't make it untrue.

I'm not aware of any factory option packages that include 9" wide wheels. I know the Performance Package comes with 7.5" wide wheels (which is purely to clear the Brembo brakes, and not to improve handling), and I think the TRD wheels might have been 8" wide?

Gforce, you are so full of shit, I dont understand how the mods havent banned you yet.

Coilovers for the most part have a spring that is much smaller in diameter than most springs, allowing up to 1" of extra space inside the wheel well.

Stock wheels are as heavy as they come, over 20lbs each, you can get wheels that are 15lbs each in stock size, or 17lbs in 17x9 and have a WIDER AND LIGHTER wheel. Tires are tires, you can use 225 or 235 tires on a 9" wheel and that will give you much better feedback AND be lighter than stock AND be stickier than stock.

1.1gs of lateral grip on 215 tires vs 1.3gs on 245 of the same tire, just different width of tire and wheels, get out of here with your "pulled out of my ass" logic.

About the only thing you said that isnt total non sense. While it doesnt REQUIER coilovers, it doesnt mean you dont benefit from it. It all depends on your purpose with the car.

Seriously dude, gtfo of this forum, im tired of waking up to reading your shitposts everywhere, GO AWAY!

I will disagree with your first point about wide wheels sticking out. I have 17x9 +35 wheels with 245/40 tires and have zero poke. -3* camber front, -2.5 (or maybe a bit less, can't remember what the max SPC LCAs give), but still zero poking tire. I have almost no clearance between tire and strut, but it's enough to not be worried about rubbing.

That is all, may edit when I finish reading your post.

Edit: I'm on S Tech springs. So around 1.5" lower than stock I think. The rest of your post I agree with

I was actually thinking of this handy little demo from road and track some time ago.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ransformation/

Tires are not well understood. Especially not well understood is how a wider but shorter contact patch works, not always better. Larger diameter wheels with lower profile tires are even less likely to be better.

As far as comparing wheel weights it is true the stock wheel is, let us say robust, which is one reason my winter tires live there.

I was comparing the total weight of the stock wheel/tire to an aftermarket wheel/tire. It is surprisingly hard to beat the tire/wheel weight as delivered by Subaru. Even Subaru had some trouble because the Primacy is such a light tire. Of course if you want to put the Primacys on something lighter you'll get an even lighter package. Duh.

I was not aware that available coilovers were significantly smaller overall diameter than stock. That surprises me given that the stock springs and dampers are technically coilovers, just fixed height spring perches.

Hope that clarifies the facts for everyone.

Friendly bunch of egos on this forum. I've been following all the various topics since I bought my car. Learned a lot of what not to do. Funny thing is I ended up with a BRZ set up almost exactly like the factory set up for the 2017 model year, for the same reasons.

I've understood what needed to be changed since shortly after I bought this car, but nobody made the right springs. The aftermarket was catering customers many of whom don't understand how to build a great road car. Subaru was pretty smart waiting until the fifth model year before finally releasing the car that it should have in 2012.

Then I put a eForce on the engine. Subaru isn't going to do that much as some of us have always thought they should.

I know what I'm doing and why it works.

Well yeah, you have triple the camber up front and a degree or more in the rear than stock. I was looking at this thread and if you were planning on using stock suspension (and/or just lowering springs) and concerned about looks it would likely be a mistake to go 17x9+35 and keep factory alignment specs.


17x9+35
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=27

17x9+45
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=28

Edit: I totally appreciate your post, I have 17x9+45's and I'm thinking about going to a lowering spring and was a bit concerned about being able to get enough camber up front, I might need a 10mm spacer but at least I know it's possible.

:cheers:

Entirely glossed over that fact. Derp. But, I also ASSumed that being a conversation about performance parts, that a performance alignment would go along with that. It's all good, seeing that @Gforce is pretty set that stock is the best, and you should change to stock springs and a fat front sway, I should have interpreted that to mean that the stock alignment was the best way to go.

Also, as far as weight goes, they could have gone with a lighter wheel set up for sure. As it is, my wheels and tires, 2" and 30cm wider than stock is still a few pounds lighter than stock. And that's not even with big boy baller wheels. Those are wheels that cost less than 1k

Edit: also Strat, I forgot to mention I have a 3mm spacer up front, bit of extra peace of mind, but I'll be honest, I did that mostly for looks.

I was about to say new RPF1's 17x9 are less than $1k, but CAD...

:sigh:
:drinking:

Those run between 1500 (maybe 1400, but haven't looked in a while) and 1900ish depending on finish.

Stock suspension uses 90mm springs and perches. Most aftermarket coilovers use 60mm springs and perches, or at least a smaller diameter perch with a beehive style 90mm spring. That 30mm difference is huge when it comes to wheel fitment, particularly with wider wheels/tires and camber dialed in.

If you weren't aware of that, then it's clear that you haven't really done much research and certainly don't have the experience to be offering advice on the sort of topics you are.

None of us are trying to have egos, we just hate seeing misinformation being spread so adamantly by someone who clearly doesn't fully understand what they're talking about. People come here seeking knowledgeable advice, and they already get enough conflicting messages from people who actually know what they're talking about. Adding in poorly informed/inexperienced inputs and it's going to make this all a lot more daunting.

Have some humility, realize that you've got a lot to learn (we all do really, but some more than others), and start reading more and talking less.

Enough with the suggestions for my own personal improvement.

I have pointed out and remain of the opinion that wider or bigger wheels are not better for this car.

I have cited decisions made by the factory, who you will have to admit know exactly how to modify their own cars and have done so. Subaru/Toyota fit 18x7.5 optional wheels in some markets. They fit 225/40x18 tires to those wheels. Is nobody wondering how they decided to do that?

I cited a real world test by road and track who found that the stock sized tire on a stock diameter wheel was quicker than the larger tire on the wider wheel.

So many posters on this forum actually know very little about what they are talking about and think that by attacking someone personally, or using juvenile insults that they are correct. Well, newsflash, most of you are completely wrong and do not understand what you're doing, why you're doing it or why it has the effect on your cars that it does.

I, on the other hand, am posting from decades of experience about modifications I researched thoroughly and implemented one by one so I know for sure what effect each modification achieved.

In the result I have modified my car to be just about perfect for very fast road driving year round in all weather.

It is no coincidence in my opinion that the 2017 factory car is very like my car, but without the Supercharger.

Now if anyone has some facts to establish that anything the factory and I have done wrong, fire away.

You just proved my points nicely, thanks.

So, the most compact coilovers make 15 mm more room for wider wheels and tires with more camber, if I understand the point being made. That's just over 1/2 inch of additional clearance to the suspension so fitted.

Just how wide a wheel will that fit and at what camber setting?

I should warn you, these are trick questions you may be wise not to answer.

Alright. I'll bite.

As long as you continue giving uninformed suggestions to others, you will continue to be told to either learn what you're talking about, or stop talking.

Your opinion is invalid if you don't know what you're talking about, which you've already demonstrated to be the case.

You cannot use OEM as a benchmark for ultimate performance on a budget sports car. The fact that you even think this is a reasonable argument suggests a complete lack of understanding not only of your car, but of the development process that OEMs go through. OEMs exist to make money. They make money by selling cars that people want to buy. They do NOT sell money by making the ULTIMATE version of anything unless they are a company called Koenigsegg, or McLaren, etc... in which case they make money by charging $2482398493423 for each car.

Your BRZ is a CHEAP sports car. There is not a single part on your car that cannot be improved upon. There is a reason why my massive 18x9 wheels weigh less than the factory 17x7 wheels. There is a reason why my 4-piston Big Brake Kit weighs 10 lb less than the tiny factory brakes. Literally everything on the BRZ is designed with cost in mind. It is all a compromise.

To claim that your car is "as good as it gets" because it is similar to OEM is completely silly. It's like claiming that your homemade apple pie is "as good as it gets" because it's similar to the generic supermarket version that they sell for $2. Your statement makes literally NO sense.

There are different scenarios which will net you different results. Did you know that if you're taking your BRZ to the drag strip, you will get better times if you fit super-skinny, super light 100-section width front tires? It's true. Because you don't need lots of front end grip in a straight line.

Likewise, on some tracks, with higher speed portions, a wider tire might not be beneficial because the added drag at higher speeds won't be made up for with higher ultimate cornering speeds.

In autocross, a 245 section tire WILL be faster than a 215 section tire. FACT. If it wasn't, then you wouldn't have LITERALLY EVERYONE in STX running a 245 tire.

I think you've made it very clear that you know less than we do.

Cool, but please refer to my previous statement.

Congratulations! You've modified your car to be... the same as the factory car? Why even do the modifications, then? Hey, maybe you're happy with what you get from the factory car... which is fine, as it's a great car. However, the factory car is the "all season tire" of BRZs. It's a great starting point, but it can definitely be improved upon when you focus it for a specific task. It can even be improved upon if you don't focus on a specific task, with more expensive parts that the OEM couldn't afford to equip it with.

The factory didn't do anything "wrong." They built the best car they could to meet the price point they needed to meet, which would please the most people, and survive in all parts of the planet where it would be sold.

I compete in STX autocross. If Subaru was building the car to be the best it could be in STX, then they fucked up. Some people (strangely) drag race their BRZs, and if Subaru was building the car to be the best that it could be at that, then they fucked up. Other people heavily track their cars. If Subaru was building a hardcore track machine, then they fucked up.

But they didn't fuck up, because they needed to make it affordable, and capable of doing a little bit of everything. They did that. They built the $2 store-brand apple pie. It's our job to make it as tasty as Aunt Gretchin's secret recipe pie.

:popcorn:

@Stang70Fastback if you really wanna have fun tell him your alignment specs.

:burnrubber:

Stock is best, idiot.

No, no, no. You need to go positive camber, because "positive" means better!

The misinformation that gets spewed on this forum is ridiculous. OEM is not always perfect. The 86 chassis is built on a budget. If the market would support this car costing 40k, the car would cost 40k. Fact is, it wont and Subaru/Toyota had to make sacrifices in order to get it at a price point that would actually sell.

Part of why people get upset with you is things like this. The "you're all idiots, only me and Subaru are doing it right" thing. No one likes that and it is not true. There is some crap on here, but there also some very intelligent people who race and win. Or people who just build really nice fun street cars (which isn't always easy either).

I agree with some of your suggestions. I disagree with some of your suggestions. I don't think you're an idiot (maybe a little stubborn like most people).

Having a reasonable discussion shouldn't be this hard. Just say that you like your car set up with X instead of Y. Maybe you tried Y and it didn't fit your needs. Try to keep in mind your preferences and situation are not exactly the same as everyone else's.

And if a person gets 1 thing wrong it doesn't necessarily invalidate everything they've ever said. But if literally everyone is telling you to rethink something, it might be time to at least listen and consider the alternative.

I'm still learning things all the time about building suspensions (and communicating with people). Some of things I've seen in the last 2 years would have blown me away 10 years ago. Anyone want to see a shock dyno of the Ohlins on a FIA GT3 championship winning racecar? Guarantee you'll be scratching your heads. That might be for another thread though.

Anyway, I try to stay out of bitchfests as much as possible. So I'm going to go drink a beer and play outside. Have fun everyone!

- Andrew