Twins future question
 

Anybody has more or less educated guess on twin's future? Is Subarota planning anything special for the next release, or, are they dropping the car? Any leaks?

My dream would be if they moved the boxer engine in the back...

They will go their separate ways.

BRZ will get bigger, framed windows, AWD and will offer a 4 door version, eventually dropping the coupe due to poor sales, then marketing the BRX to "outdoor, adventure" people..

Toyota will come out with the new, improved FWD version of the 86, possibly even releasing a bonnet spoiler to make it "appeal to younger kids" and a "Sportivo" version which will be nothing more than a stripes and different wheels package.

While over at Nissan, they will see this opportunity in the market and will released a 400k GTR which will be even more powerful and boring to drive, and will back it up by bringing to the market another 7 SUV's

If I recall proper ....... someone once made a car like that ..... :D


humfrz

50-50, on death or gen 2, either way you won't hear anything until 2020 as far as I'm concerned, don't hold out, enjoy them today.

This ^

Any "leaked" info at this point will be pure speculation on some clickbait writers part. Usually using misquotes, ancient history history, fake interviews or outright talking out of their ass to make a story that will get clicks. Then the other sites will take that fiction and rum with it and build things up even more. When it fails to appear as they predict they will just take than same info, scratch out the year and move it to the next to start the process all over again.

If you're looking for a more powerful turbo/sc version, it's not likely.

2017 is just a facelift version I believe. But I am guessing FA22 or FA25 for more NA HP in the future.
Doesn't matter if it has supercharged, or turbo in the future because by then I already have my own.

Just nab yourself a supercharger and you've got yourself DIY gen 2.

Or... People will just make up fictional new engines.

FA50, bitches. H-8 will decimate all.

I was going to guess a flat-x 8 at around 3L displacement and a 12k redline...

Ooo, under-square revver sounds nice. May I change my vote?

I'll hold out for the FA80.


humfrz

This:

http://jalopnik.com/toyota-hints-at-...eup-1793108540

New Supra at the top end to compete with Corvette/Cayman, 86GT in the middle (left pretty much alone, e.g. no turbo), and new MR2 at the bottom of the lineup, around $20K.

...and air-cooled lightness!

:bow::bow::bow:

I don't care about future models. I just want to enjoy the current one.

another superb thread/question by @accel, doesn't best da money shift tho

I'm hoping they don't announce a new gen. I can see this car having a long run like the 370Z

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

So the tech get's older and it get's bigger, heavier and more dated looking?
Probably the most accurate prediction yet.

200% better than some!


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118227

The problem is it felt like the 370z over stayed its welcome. I'd hate for the twins to be "that" car.

Hey! There was one demographic still buying them.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...9b6603ce21.jpg

I'll wait for the Subaru 1235.

Subaru Motori Moderni.....3.5l flat 12 true boxer engine.


http://i.imgur.com/xrdw9k0.jpg

*is

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

Point taken!


They are not quite dead yet.

Subaru did announce a new engine... FA24DIT. A pipe dream for the BRZ but its going in the Ascent SUV.

I like OP's thinking that someone was holding onto a BRZ/86 leak waiting for someone to make a post and ask.

Yes but they are not going to throw away the investment in the current Fa20 to start making new versions for a one off sports model. The old FA20 series will soldier on with minor upgrades until they get their money's worth out of it. Hell, they based the whole new global platform around the Fa20 so it isn't going anyplace.

Get a Porsche. Problem solved :thumbup:

I was thinking about that the other day. Since Scion ended up "dying" and the twins haven't really been selling like hotcakes cakes, even with the Toyota refresh, I honestly think they won't make it much longer. I don't think they can carry 3 sporty cars Supra,86, and the lower spec alleged new Celica. The twins were a labor of love it seemed and not enough people "got" it. I'm actually kinda hoping they kill off the twins sooner rather than later. Mainly because lower production makes it slightly more collectible in the long run. I know there's tons of them out there now but if they stop production soon, in 10-20 years they'll be scarce, especially in Scion trim.
I really think the twins will be a car that gets cult status once they stop. Too many people took this car at face value.

What are you on about? If they stop production in the next year or 2, there will be more FRS' on the road than BRZ or 86's.

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...ru/subaru-brz/
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...on/scion-fr-s/

According to those numbers, the FRS sold WAY more than the BRZ in NA, like, right around double, every year.

The car has done quite well already the only thing it has going against it is priced for used ones are too good to pass up or heck if your brave enough someone can totally build this up ones revived at auctions for less than 10K all the b:&;&:& about power is so ludicrous and don't really get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is where things can go sideways fast though. The reason that the used ones are priced so low is that there are so many for the market. There are so many for the market because they are still selling new ones. Take the new ones out of the equation and the supply of used also dwindles which forces the price up. The prices are very low right now but that could change n a heartbeat if the supply drops. Check the prices in some of the areas where used ones are still not common and you will see they are still going for a good amount.
As far as rebuilds go they really don't have a huge impact on the market anyway. Let's be optimistic and say that for each car totaled 50% get brought back to a street worthy condition. That other 50% that become scrap, parts or a dedicated race car sort of balances out the numbers since they were removed from market.
The whole use car value thing is a very delicate balancing act with supply and demand setting the price.

It really wasn't a Toyota "refresh". If Scion had still been around they would have received exactly the same treatment. Only the badge changed and it had nothing to do with the refresh.
The other cars (if they actually come to market) will be in totally different price ranges and target groups. The impact would be minimal. Not many here are cross shopping a new Vette against a new 86 and that would be what the price difference would do.

My broken record speech still stands in that it doesn't matter what the sales numbers are without knowing what the planned production levels were. If they planned to build 1,000 cars and sold all 1,000 of them then the sales are just fine. If they planned to build a 1,000 and had demand for 1,200 then the sales would be through the roof (and they may not be able to meet that demand). If they planned to build 1,000 and only sold 100 then sales tanked and the model would be in trouble. Now, of course we have no idea what their sales plan was so it could actually be any of those three scenarios but I think that if there was a huge field of unsold ones someplace or they were slashing and burning the price (Look up the Aztec to see what I mean for both those) we would probably have heard about it. They never intended to sell these cars in Corolla numbers so low sales stats mean nothing when looked at separate from the rest of the required data.

May or may not be relevant, but Toyota has sold 2400 of the "only 8600 made" US model Toyota 86 as of April. So that puts them on track to sell 7200 for the year? Not exactly the numbers they're looking for.

Subaru claimed 100k per year worldwide. Add in the 8600 target for 86s, special editions sitting on lots months after they arrive, I think it's fair to say they marginally overestimated demand.

http://www.autoblog.com/amp/2012/03/...-86-and-scion/

Whether or not that still qualifies as 'successful' for subieyota none of us will likely ever know, last I looked they hadn't yet hit 200k total but may cross that threshold later this year. Maybe you're right and this is exactly what they wanted, an easily accessible coupe that would draw people into the Toyota fold, the whole loss leader theory.

We don't know the target.
In fact their source for that number is highly suspect: " According to FT86club.com, Yasayuki Yoshinaga, president of Fuji Heavy Industries, has announced that his company will produce 100,000 units per year at the Subaru plant in Ota City, Japan. (That figure accounts for every iteration of the sports coupe.)" It is a click bait blog quoting a forum as the source. I would like to see the Subaru document that states exactly what their annual goals were/are. Companies rarely provide such information unless you sit on the board of directors or are a major shareholder. Publicizing your business plans is not generally a good way to run a business and Toyota/Subaru are pretty well known for knowing how to run a business.

As far as some sitting on lots for months goes that is not a great indicator either. Some may sit in one area but be totally unattainable in another. That particular dealer may just not give a crap and not even attempt to move it where another may be out ponding doors looking for a buyer. Special editions are not good sales indicators anyway since they take a niche product and tuck it even further back into a corner.

We can present all the theories and rationalizations we want but the reality is they have thousands of people working on estimating sales and setting targets and they are not amateurs so they will be very close in their numbers. Many people here (not you Strat I know you understand) seem to think that these decisions are made by two guys over coffee a week before the car is scheduled to come out or that the production can be raised or lowered with a flip of a switch but that is just not the way the industry works. They plan what to make and they make what they plan it is as simple as that.

There was a business case presented well before the first concept drawing hit the design table and that case cold very well be a low volume loss leader vehicle to raise awareness of the sports segment. There is not a hope in hell that a business case was presented and accepted that said vehicle was ever expected to sell in family sedan numbers. None, nada, zip, zilch. Ford has very publicly stated that they make nothing on the top levels of the Mustang if sold at MSRP. They make their money from the identify of the vehicle being associated with all the rest of their cars and trucks.

They sold 2400 of them with a release in January. It is only May. Look at the historical sales rates of the winter months vs the spring and summer months. Not everybody lives and buys cars in perpetually summer California or Florida. They haven't even come into peak sales season yet so it is not inconceivable that they could sell out. Hell, some are not even received yet so it isn't like they have been sitting.

Just for the sake of argument let's say the did only sell 7,400 of the 8,600. That is only a 15% miss. Not sure what business/jobs everybody is in but do you think you could predict your tasks within 15% a year in advance?

As far as technical development goes, I would not expect anything major. They​ nailed the chassis right out of the gate, and it looks pretty good for the price range. Only thing that would sell better would be to add power. Subaru has the go fast(er) know-how, but my guess is Toyota holds the cards contractually/money-wise. Since the two brands are still competitors with separate leadership, I don't see Subaru giving Toyota a turbo, nor Toyota paying Subaru to develop a better/bigger engine for Subaru's lineup.

That being said, contracts can have an expiration date...