Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   86 Air Conditioning (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118199)

bkharmony 05-02-2017 04:28 PM
86 Air Conditioning
 
So I've had a brand new 2017 86 for two months now. Previous car was a 2013 TC. I prefer to drive with AC off as much as possible, but it's starting to heat up in Texas, so the last few weeks I've been running it during the afternoon.

Obviously this is subjective, but the AC seems really poor in this car. I would think it'd be easy to cool such a small cabin. Today it's 85, and driving around I'm beginning to break a sweat. It just never felt comfortable, even though I had the temp at coldest with recirculation on. My TC definitely cooled better.

Are these vehicles known for having weak AC systems? My thought was maybe the compressor is small to save weight. Do I need to check with Toyota Service, or am I just being a big wimp? We haven't even hit 90º yet, so I'm a bit worried.

8RZ 05-02-2017 04:54 PM
Weird, maybe check your freon level? Here in Florida mine has no trouble keeping me cool, I even up the temp since I get too cold at times.

bababooey 05-02-2017 05:02 PM
mine can freeze me out mid summer if given long enough cranked to max.

Dadhawk 05-02-2017 05:04 PM
As @8RZ and @bababooey say, I'd have it checked by the dealer. Mine will create icicles on your hands if you turn it up too high. I rarely run it over level 2 even on the hottest Atlanta day.

FR-Sky 05-02-2017 05:09 PM
are u sure? mine is hella cold even with level 1.

Braces 05-02-2017 05:09 PM
Something wrong with your car. I never had any issues when I had the car in 100 degree Phoenix.

strat61caster 05-02-2017 05:12 PM
imo it struggles if you're not moving, thermal insulation is poor in an effort to keep the weight low and you feel it, engine temps have a noticeable impact on your hvac system (great in the cold, crap most of the rest of the time). If you can maintain consistent speeds, (30+ mph) it does the job well, like others said downright chilly on max blast even in 105+ degree heat once the cabin gets cooled off it doesn't need to be on max blast to maintain it, but if you trudge along in stop and go traffic a lot I'm not surprised that you feel underwhelmed.


I maintain that the truck I bought for $1000 that was built 22 years before my FR-S had better AC.

yelsew 05-02-2017 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2902923)

I maintain that the truck I bought for $1000 that was built 22 years before my FR-S had better AC.
AAh yes, Probably the joys of the old R12 refrigerant before everything switched to R134a

arrow34 05-02-2017 05:30 PM
Funny, coming from a 2008 tc, I think the frs has better ac :) But then again, my ac compressor finally failed last year which made me switch to a frs... boo... I only miss the hatch from the tc. But I love my frs.

nextcar 05-02-2017 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkharmony (Post 2902885)
So I've had a brand new 2017 86 for two months now. Previous car was a 2013 TC. I prefer to drive with AC off as much as possible, but it's starting to heat up in Texas, so the last few weeks I've been running it during the afternoon.

Obviously this is subjective, but the AC seems really poor in this car. I would think it'd be easy to cool such a small cabin. Today it's 85, and driving around I'm beginning to break a sweat. It just never felt comfortable, even though I had the temp at coldest with recirculation on. My TC definitely cooled better.

Are these vehicles known for having weak AC systems? My thought was maybe the compressor is small to save weight. Do I need to check with Toyota Service, or am I just being a big wimp? We haven't even hit 90º yet, so I'm a bit worried.
Hmm... You state the AC is set at the coldest setting/recirculate, but what was the fan speed set to?

I agree with the others - the AC in this car is more than adequate - but unless you are moving some air the coldest setting will have little effect...

Good luck & "keep cool"!:w00t:

bkharmony 05-02-2017 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcar (Post 2902944)
Hmm... You state the AC is set at the coldest setting/recirculate, but what was the fan speed set to?
I usually prefer it at 2, but today I was switching between 3 and 4.

strat61caster 05-02-2017 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelsew (Post 2902927)
AAh yes, Probably the joys of the old R12 refrigerant before everything switched to R134a
A 4-banger in an engine bay designed for a V6 helps too. While an 86 is convenient to work on, it ain't all that spacious. Heat management is highly overlooked by the average Joe until the system fails.

bkharmony 05-02-2017 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2902923)
If you can maintain consistent speeds, (30+ mph) it does the job well, like others said downright chilly on max blast even in 105+ degree heat once the cabin gets cooled off it doesn't need to be on max blast to maintain it, but if you trudge along in stop and go traffic a lot I'm not surprised that you feel underwhelmed.
90% of the time I'm in start/stop traffic or inching along. Probably not the best conditions for an AC system.

strat61caster 05-02-2017 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkharmony (Post 2902953)
90% of the time I'm in start/stop traffic or inching along. Probably not the best conditions for an AC system.
Bingo, as far as I'm concerned your car sounds just like mine.

The price you pay for a ~2760 lb coupe.

:cheers:

Edit: The Scion TC weighs >3,000 lbs, what you get with that extra 250+ lbs is a better HVAC system for the passengers (more powerful A/C, better routing and insulation of the ducting), it's all about sacrifices when you build a car on a price point.

PandaSPUR 05-02-2017 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkharmony (Post 2902953)
90% of the time I'm in start/stop traffic or inching along. Probably not the best conditions for an AC system.
Yep, theres the problem. Compressor runs off the engine and relies on airflow created by movement of your car. No movement = no airflow = hotter compressor = less cooling inside.

bkharmony 05-02-2017 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2902955)
The Scion TC weighs >3,000 lbs, what you get with that extra 250+ lbs is a better HVAC system for the passengers (more powerful A/C, better routing and insulation of the ducting), it's all about sacrifices when you build a car on a price point.
I swear I get significantly more engine heat through the vents when the system is completely off. And like you said, I've been wondering if that's simply an effect of the engineering focus on low weight, compact design, and performance. If that's the case, I'm good with that. I knew I'd ben making sacrifices. I just want to be sure I'm not crazy, ill, or my brand new AC system is already on the fritz.

Thanks for your help.

bkharmony 05-02-2017 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaSPUR (Post 2902957)
Yep, theres the problem. Compressor runs off the engine and relies on airflow created by movement of your car. No movement = no airflow = hotter compressor = less cooling inside.
I get that's how AC systems work. I'm just comparing two vehicles in exactly the same conditions (my commute hasn't changed in 5 years, and neither has Texas heat), and seeing two different results. I mean, if the 86's AC just isn't as good as a more "comfort-focused" vehicle, I can live with that. I just want to be sure it's not faulty.

humfrz 05-02-2017 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaSPUR (Post 2902957)
Yep, theres the problem. Compressor runs off the engine and relies on airflow created by movement of your car. No movement = no airflow = hotter compressor = less cooling inside.
:slap: .....:D

You wanna re-think that..??

An A/C system is a "closed" system ..... ;)


humfrz

PandaSPUR 05-02-2017 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by humfrz (Post 2903058)
:slap: .....:D

You wanna re-think that..??

An A/C system is a "closed" system ..... ;)


humfrz
?

Yea, the refrigerant never comes in direct contact with air, but the condenser has to be cooled somehow. If the heat never escapes, the system just keeps getting less and less efficient at cooling.

PandaSPUR 05-02-2017 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkharmony (Post 2903054)
I get that's how AC systems work. I'm just comparing two vehicles in exactly the same conditions (my commute hasn't changed in 5 years, and neither has Texas heat), and seeing two different results. I mean, if the 86's AC just isn't as good as a more "comfort-focused" vehicle, I can live with that. I just want to be sure it's not faulty.
Yea I get what you mean, but its the best explanation I can think of.

Every passenger I've had comments that the AC in my BRZ is freezing cold, even on the hottest of NYC days. I also tend to drive above 3k RPM even in the city.

VIP BRZ 05-02-2017 08:46 PM
Not to be this guy.. but are you large in stature?

my AC gets unbearably cold.. even at the lowest fan setting.

humfrz 05-02-2017 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaSPUR (Post 2903063)
?

Yea, the refrigerant never comes in direct contact with air, but the condenser has to be cooled somehow. If the heat never escapes, the system just keeps getting less and less efficient at cooling.
That's what the fan does when it blows air across the radiator/coils ...... :)

If you put your car in your garage on a hot day (the car is not moving) and run the engine and A/C, it will still cool......:popcorn:

DAMMMNNNNNN ....... I've been hanging with ol @Tcoat for too long .......:eyebulge:


humfrz

extrashaky 05-02-2017 09:39 PM
I've had mine since 2014 through stints in Louisiana, Texas and now Florida. I have never had a problem with the A/C, even in the horrible traffic in shithole Houston in August.

HOWEVER, I have Llumar ceramic window tint and the OEM shade I usually put in the windshield whenever I'm going to be out of the car more than a few minutes. The UV and infrared blocking properties of the film made a significant, noticeable difference in comfort inside the car. The shade keeps the dash and steering wheel from heating up while it's parked and protects them from UV damage we've seen on some of these cars. Cooling the volume of air inside the cabin is only half the battle.

Tcoat 05-02-2017 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by humfrz (Post 2903082)
That's what the fan does when it blows air across the radiator/coils ...... :)

If you put your car in your garage on a hot day (the car is not moving) and run the engine and A/C, it will still cool......:popcorn:

DAMMMNNNNNN ....... I've been hanging with ol @Tcoat for too long .......:eyebulge:


humfrz
Yes you have and as a result the moments of lucidity have been becoming more common!

PandaSPUR 05-02-2017 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by humfrz (Post 2903082)
That's what the fan does when it blows air across the radiator/coils ...... :)

If you put your car in your garage on a hot day (the car is not moving) and run the engine and A/C, it will still cool......:popcorn:

DAMMMNNNNNN ....... I've been hanging with ol @Tcoat for too long .......:eyebulge:


humfrz
But @Tcoat is usually right in what he says... and doesn't suggest death by carbon monoxide

humfrz 05-03-2017 12:01 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaSPUR (Post 2903198)
But @Tcoat is usually right in what he says... and doesn't suggest death by carbon monoxide
:slap: ....... you DON'T shut the garage door ..... :rolleyes:

......and @Tcoat isn't even usually right ...... just ask mrs Tcoat ...... :D


humfrz

Besides carbon monoxide isn't all that bad for you ....... as a kid, I spent countless hours on a tractor that the muffler had long since rusted away ..... and you can see how I turned out, so ....... :iono:

Ultramaroon 05-03-2017 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkharmony (Post 2903054)
I get that's how AC systems work. I'm just comparing two vehicles in exactly the same conditions (my commute hasn't changed in 5 years, and neither has Texas heat), and seeing two different results. I mean, if the 86's AC just isn't as good as a more "comfort-focused" vehicle, I can live with that. I just want to be sure it's not faulty.
It's just how it performs. Your and strat's experience matches mine. In heavy traffic my temperature control is a choice between recirc or fresh. :|

It does great once I get moving. The compressor doesn't really keep up with the evaporator below 2K RPM

Tcoat 05-03-2017 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaSPUR (Post 2902957)
Yep, theres the problem. Compressor runs off the engine and relies on airflow created by movement of your car. No movement = no airflow = hotter compressor = less cooling inside.
Doesn't really matter how hot the compressor runs. That isn't where the cooling happens.
Heat is removed at the condenser which is downstream of the compressor. Hum is correct in saying the fan removes the heat at that point. You are also correct though since a moving car sheds heat better than a stationary one. The more efficiently heat is removed from the condenser the more efficient the system works. As mentioned the engine bay is packed pretty solid so our AC isn't the most efficient out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultramaroon (Post 2903220)
It's just how it performs. Your and strat's experience matches mine. In heavy traffic my temperature control is a choice between recirc or fresh. :|

It does great once I get moving. The compressor doesn't really keep up with the evaporator below 2K RPM
Yep. This is where the compressor comes in. At low RPMs it just isn't moving enough gas to the condenser too turn it to liquid. Not enough liquid at the condenser means not enough is turning back to gas at the evaporator to remove the heat from the passenger compartment. Poor cooling at idle is not unusual for small displacement engines since a larger compressor that would move more gas would rob too much power. Combine this with the hot engine bay and you have an AC system that is happiest when moving with higher RPMs.

Now what is "cold" is subjective to individuals so when one guys says his is freezing and another says his is still warm it could very likely be exactly the same temperature in the car.

Tcoat 05-03-2017 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by humfrz (Post 2903219)
:slap: ....... you DON'T shut the garage door ..... :rolleyes:

......and @Tcoat isn't even usually right ...... just ask mrs Tcoat ...... :D


humfrz

Besides carbon monoxide isn't all that bad for you ....... as a kid, I spent countless hours on a tractor that the muffler had long since rusted away ..... and you can see how I turned out, so ....... :iono:
That was probably more due to the lead in the gas than the CO.

PandaSPUR 05-03-2017 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2903312)
Doesn't really matter how hot the compressor runs. That isn't where the cooling happens.
Heat is removed at the condenser which is downstream of the compressor. Hum is correct in saying the fan removes the heat at that point. You are also correct though since a moving car sheds heat better than a stationary one. The more efficiently heat is removed from the condenser the more efficient the system works. As mentioned the engine bay is packed pretty solid so our AC isn't the most efficient out there.



Yep. This is where the compressor comes in. At low RPMs it just isn't moving enough gas to the condenser too turn it to liquid. Not enough liquid at the condenser means not enough is turning back to gas at the evaporator to remove the heat from the passenger compartment. Poor cooling at idle is not unusual for small displacement engines since a larger compressor that would move more gas would rob too much power. Combine this with the hot engine bay and you have an AC system that is happiest when moving with higher RPMs.

Now what is "cold" is subjective to individuals so when one guys says his is freezing and another says his is still warm it could very likely be exactly the same temperature in the car.
Woops. Named the wrong part I guess. Either way, keep the hot side cooler and the cold side will work better.

On really hot summer days, after my car's been parked on the street, I tend to leave the windows down and ride out first gear for a block or two. Airflow removes some heat from the car body and interior, gets more air to the engine bay, and higher RPMs crank the compressor. Tends to cool down the car pretty quick, and then I'm okay even if get stuck in traffic.

Tcoat 05-03-2017 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaSPUR (Post 2903338)
Woops. Named the wrong part I guess. Either way, keep the hot side cooler and the cold side will work better.

On really hot summer days, after my car's been parked on the street, I tend to leave the windows down and ride out first gear for a block or two. Airflow removes some heat from the car body and interior, gets more air to the engine bay, and higher RPMs crank the compressor. Tends to cool down the car pretty quick, and then I'm okay even if get stuck in traffic.
Yep.
Tinted windows help a lot as well.


Oh and don't do like I did for the first two weeks of owning the car. I whined and muttered about how crappy the AC was and that it barely even cooled the car at all. Then one day I turned the little wheel on the dash vents and actually opened them up. The difference was startling. The sad part was I had actually read about them in the manual.

PandaSPUR 05-03-2017 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2903340)
Yep.
Tinted windows help a lot as well.


Oh and don't do like I did for the first two weeks of owning the car. I whined and muttered about how crappy the AC was and that it barely even cooled the car at all. Then one day I turned the little wheel on the dash vents and actually opened them up. The difference was startling. The sad part was I had actually read about them in the manual.
When RTFM goes from Read The F* Manual to Remember The F* Manual.

nextcar 05-03-2017 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaSPUR (Post 2903198)
But @Tcoat is usually right in what he says... and doesn't suggest death by carbon monoxide
It is almost impossible to kill yourself this way with a modern car if the pollution control system is intact... but I still don't recommend trying!

PandaSPUR 05-03-2017 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcar (Post 2903384)
It is almost impossible to kill yourself this way with a modern car if the pollution control system is intact... but I still don't recommend trying!
Depends on size of garage and duration I'm guessing, but still very possible. I think this past winter there were some deaths reported on local news from people running their car to warm up in the garage.

humfrz 05-03-2017 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2903314)
That was probably more due to the lead in the gas than the CO.
Yep, that too. In the early, sultry, summer mornings, while filling the tractor with leaded gas, I had to lean over the filler tube, to look in to see when the tank was getting full, hence huffing the fumes coming out of the tank.

What a way to start the day ....... :eyebulge:


humfrz

nextcar 05-03-2017 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaSPUR (Post 2903388)
Depends on size of garage and duration I'm guessing, but still very possible. I think this past winter there were some deaths reported on local news from people running their car to warm up in the garage.
Not from carbon monoxide

PandaSPUR 05-03-2017 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcar (Post 2903437)
Not from carbon monoxide
Always assumed it was, thought thats what I read in the news too. Same for the stories where people died waiting for their car to heat up cause the exhaust was blocked by snow.

What is it then? I hope if people are smelling straight up exhaust gasses, they'd notice....

Tcoat 05-03-2017 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcar (Post 2903437)
Not from carbon monoxide
Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaSPUR (Post 2903439)
Always assumed it was, thought thats what I read in the news too. Same for the stories where people died waiting for their car to heat up cause the exhaust was blocked by snow.

What is it then? I hope if people are smelling straight up exhaust gasses, they'd notice....
People still die from it every year. Yes the cats reduce it but they do not eliminate it. A small enough area with a car running long enough can still do people in. Not near as bad as it was once upon a time but still an issue.


Can be a huge issue for anybody running a car with no cats but we all know that nobody ever removes them!


I laughed my ass off at the badge proudly displayed on the back of my wife's new car.
How the hell is anything "Partially Zero"?
http://lacarguy.files.wordpress.com/...pzev-badge.jpg

bkharmony 05-03-2017 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIP BRZ (Post 2903078)
Not to be this guy.. but are you large in stature?

my AC gets unbearably cold.. even at the lowest fan setting.
I'm no waif by any measure; certainly at the upper end of "average." But like I mentioned, I'm comparing same me, same city, same environment, same commute... the only variable in this equation is the car.

I suppose if I dropped 20 lbs. the AC would work better by default. Maybe I'll just do that.

:bonk:

Ultramaroon 05-03-2017 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2903446)
I laughed my ass off at the badge proudly displayed on the back of my wife's new car.
How the hell is anything "Partially Zero"?
http://lacarguy.files.wordpress.com/...pzev-badge.jpg
Gawd, how many assholes did it take to come up with that bullshit? SMH


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