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MotorTrend's Head-2-Head MX-5 MiataRF vs. Toyota86
Overview https://youtu.be/NSq5Zb5ZNWY
2017 Toyota 86 MSRP: $26,255 as tested: ~$26,854 USD MPG: 21 city / 28 highway Horsepower: 205 hp @ 7,000 rpm, Torque: 156 lb-ft Engine: 2.0 L 4-cylinder Curb weight: 2,760 lbs Dimensions: 167″ L x 70″ W x 51″ H Tire size: P215/45R17 Option(s) equipped: Fog Lights $599 2017 Mazda MX-5 Miata RF club MSRP: $32,720 as tested: ~$36,130 USD MPG: 27 city / 34 highway Horsepower: 155 hp @ 6,000 rpm, Torque: 148 lb-ft Engine: 2.0 L 4-cylinder Curb weight: 2,445 lbs Dimensions: 154″ L x 68″ W x 49″ H Tire size: P205/45R17 Option(s) equipped: Brembo/BBS Package $3400 :sigh: Why would they not test a '17 BRZ LTD with STI lip kit and PP to make this a fair fight? I dont know :thumbdown: What are your guy's thoughts or predictions? Which car is going to have the best lap time? Better back-roads carver or city driving? Do we have people here who have driven the RF as well as a '17 86/BRZ? EDIT UPDATE: Quote:
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86 will probably win as the better driver's car.
I think the RF will win, with the roofless experience and better interior quality winning the reviewers over. They should have used a PP BRZ. |
I test drove the RF and really liked it but the one I drove was close to $35,000. I didn't love it enough to spend that much. That's entering WRX STI territory. Wish it had the Recaro seats they get in Europe and a telescoping steering wheel. In the end, the price and lack of practicality caused me to keep my FRS.
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Subaru where are my 2 ft-lbs of torque!? I NEED THOSE:bellyroll: https://preview.ibb.co/cLxqfk/Capture.png |
As close as I can come is driving a NC Miata for 8 years followed by driving my FR-S for 4 years.
My take is that the FR-S is a bit more practical, but the Miata is a bunch more fun. I figure the contest will be close. Their conclusion may be that if you like a roadster, get a Miata ..... if you prefer a coupe, get an 86. humfrz |
You can always cut the roof off your FR-S - not that I would recommend it.
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humfrz |
Randy Pobst will be the test driver and he generally prefers the MX5 when we have these shootouts between Miata and 86. I just wish they'd put some decent F'ing tires on the twin and it would be a whole other deal
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Really, what were the chances that rock would fall, just as I was driving by ....:confused0068: humfrz |
It depends on the track. If they use something small and tight that will favor the miata.
I am sure they couldn't get a BRZ, or Toyota and Subaru have some kind of every other year plan when it came to which cars would go to the magazines. A few years ago everything was a BRZ, now it is probably Toyota's turn. |
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This new one is particularly stupid-looking. The lines are awkward, and the "face" on the front looks like a stoner saying, "Dude, what?" And Mazda knows they screwed it up. If you look at the main Miata page on the Mazda website, there's not a single pic of the hideous front end. You have to dig into the gallery to see what the front end actually looks like. And even then, they have all the thumbnails of the front end cropped so you can't see it clearly. They know it's ugly, so they hide it. Again, driving an ugly car is okay if the performance is there. But the comment was made that the MT reviewer would likely judge it on aesthetics as well. Aesthetically there's no contest. |
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I think the RF will end up winning the head to head. The brake advantage alone (not sure why they didn't get the BRZ with the PP) will play a part.
Also, there's still a torque dip and not really any more power compared to the previous gen FRS. Those were two complaints they had in the last head 2 head against the mx5. The mx5 RF will is a bit heavier, so I imagine some of their performance measurements will be a bit closer, but I still think the MX5 will take the overall win. The 86 has been improved, but only in really small ways in various areas. It's nothing dramatic compared to the zenki model. Now, if the 86 ran an even shorter final drive and had absolutely no torque dip and an 8k redline (and had the brembos) I think it'd have the upper hand in the comparison. We'll see though. |
You have no trunk space in the Miata, I never understand the endless debate between two different animals one a roadster and the other is a hardtop 2+2 car.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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We could pack enough stuff in it for two weeks of touring at a time. It was dependable, economical and the top down driving experience was priceless, for us two 60+ year old folks. The ONLY reason I traded it for my FR-S was that mrs humfrz was tiring of the "top down adventure". So, I went with the FR-S because it was a coupe (quieter), 2+2 (more room for traveling stuff), but still was economical and fun to drive. As far as being viewed as driving a "feminine car" ...... if anyone thought that ..... that was there problem ...... not mine. (hey, big balls, just tuck that honking truck or your overpowered mustang in behind me and try to keep up with this girly car, as I go through the curves on this mountain ...... :happyanim: humfrz |
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Oh ...... it must be my bedtime ...... stuck in the 50's .....again ...... :sigh: humfrz |
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However, mrs humfrz and I were able to pack enough stuff to take several 2 week driving trips (with one wash stop). You just have to learn to pack light and tight. Yes, one is a roadster and one is a coupe ...... but, to me they drove/drive much the same. ;) humfrz |
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Back then, very few guard rails and when the road was part gravel ..... one had to know the limits of car .......:burnrubber: humfrz |
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I'm not going to regurgitate everything said, but i'll include some highlights.
[about the 86] "Can you explain to me why the front of this car looks like a jack-o-lantern in December"? -Jason Cammisa :bellyroll: "This sounds like two garbage trucks arm wrestling in a dumpster" -Jonny Lieberman: "Garbage trucks are too big, more like two drain disposals, one gargoyling on marbles the other on silverware" -Jason Cammisa :iono: [about both cars] "I loves these things, they're like fighter planes, not the heavy bombers" -Randy Pobst "Picking a winner was tough, we preferred whatever car we got out of last.. until we drove them to work. On normal roads at normal speeds its the miata that turns the drudgery into comedy and puts the 86 in second place" -Jason Cammisa Jonny and Jason comparison comments: -86 Rides better than the miata -86 Quieter than the miata -maita more fun at 10/10 -miata lots of body roll (duh), lots of movement with lots of control -86 More roomy cabin, likes the seat and steering wheel adjustment/telescoping -86 "sit the way you want to sit" -86 They're not a fan of the boxer exhaust and rumble, evident by my quote above -86 drives every bit as good as the miata Randy's comments: -86 less body roll, likes the feeling of control that goes with it -86 pulls better at higher rpm -86 better sense of control -miata behaves better on bumps, 86 gets more upset with "snap oversteer" -miata felt planted over a bumpy section on the track -miata you can change direction better Streets of Willow hot lap times: 86: 1:30.26 RF: 1:30.39 Jonny tries to beat Randy's times in a Hellcat (yes you just read that) and clocks a 1:40.79 Miata RF WINS Head 2 Head My thoughts on the video: I really enjoyed it, very entertaining and for as much crap these guys give our cars in other videos they had a lot of nice things to say. The review did an excellent job capturing my enjoyment i have driving my brz. Based off this video, what should you do? Buy a BRZ PP!:thumbsup: |
If I had $36k to spend on a car, it wouldn't be a Miata. This comparison is stupid, there's $10,000 difference between the cars. Why don't they just throw in a Cayman to the mix too?
If a mag is doing anything other than comparing like-for-like, they are selling something, not reviewing anything. MotoTrend is automotive "journalism" at its worst. Pick up the print magazine and check out the ads- the people paying the bills. Then look at the "review" of that product a few pages later. It happens all the time, they cannot be unbiased or they'll bite the hand that feeds them. So for $10k less, there was only 1/10's between them AND the 86 has room for passengers in the back? Look outside the lines, that's a clear win to me. |
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As someone who worked at an ad agency for a couple years and also at a major magazine publication in the ad sales department, I can tell you that what you're talking about does happen but it's typically so blatant that even your grandma would notice it; and it typically happens in much lower profile magazines. Could MT be biased? I'd bet the higher ups might be. But when it comes to the actual writers and test drivers, I can assure you, they're gonna do their best to get their real opinions through even if they are encouraged to swing the piece one way or another. |
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They're basically saying that it hard to go wrong with either one.
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So the somewhat slower, significantly more expensive, and less convenient vehicle is the winner? Nice to see Motor Trend hasn't changed.
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The 86 is $10K cheaper.
On Willow, the BRZ + PP might have made some amount of difference, but I don't imagine the Sachs shocks, bremos, or 10mm wider tires would suddenly transform the car and make them think different about it on the street, which is obviously a sticking point. Is .13 seconds worth $10K? No. Not at all. |
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http://i64.tinypic.com/2rms3tw.png apparently the new brembos are a free upgrade?:paddle: |
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Can't go wrong with either, but from personal experience, I've always found the 86/BRZ to be lacking a bit in stock form. A couple small changes fixes that. When I drive the mx5 around though, I love it. Maybe it's the roadster/top down aspect. |
I'm surprised the 86 was slightly faster. I guess the RF's roof does slow it down a little.
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These are 2 cars based on driver enjoyment. They thought the ND was more fun to drive, which is was a lot of reviewers have been saying. If you want a cheap practical car, buy a new Civic Si. That will probably be faster than both of these cars for less money. |
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Call me crazy, but I actually don't like the way the RF looks. It's better with the top down, in my opinion. |
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I would also pick the Vert over the RF. The RF complicates the simplicity of the Miata that I love. I've owned convertibles before and don't enjoy using them as daily drivers. Even if I didn't need the rear seats in my FRS I would stick pick the 86 platform for its fixed top. I also don't like the idea of bolting in a roll bar to a brand new car. |
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Agree on the looks of the RF btw. I was surprised when I saw the picture above and actually preferred the shape of the 86. The RF is not bad, just looks slightly bulbous. |
I think each car offers something that the other does not and I wouldn't blame anyone for reaching whatever conclusion they did.
I don't think the top down, back road driving experience of the MX-5 can be replaced in any measure by the 86. If you are someone who really likes top-down driving, already has a second vehicle and wants a toy, the MX-5 is an obvious choice. Now on the other hand, if you need any measure of practicality because you can only have one vehicle either due to space or cost restrictions, the 86 wins automatically. |
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