Toyota drivetrain warranty denied - suggestions?
 

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Wow all I can say is good luck and keep us posted. How can they claim oil starvation if you have a documented oil change.

I am surprised by Toyota's unwillingness to help. At the moment it seems like things are definitely out of your hands and logical to go the lawyer route. I want to believe the odds are in your favor being under the power train warranty, but may they know there was an issue with the earlier engines that they do not want to admit. Good luck I hope everything gets sorted out for you.

You are on the right track for something blocking oil circulation probably, that would be my guess as well (still just a guess). Im glad the dealer is willing to let you fight the decision but I would just like to point out, that a fully built engine would cost less than that engine replacement. Heck, including a brand new block with forged internals can be had for that price, so I dont know whats up with that, I wouldn't pay $10k for a used engine, or $12k for a new one. You said you planned to go down the turbo or SC route later, why not go ahead and build it? Dont feel tied to the dealer for the $1k they charged you for dismounting it. You will loose a lot more if you decided to go ahead and shell out $12k for a new engine.

Also feel free to try another dealer and see where it goes. Could be tough with the engine already in pieces though.

Since Toyota is already involved, it probably won't go anywhere else (unless you just meant the cost of the replacement). Toyota would have to approve this level of warranty work before the dealer would do it.

Some of the 13s have a recurring issue with oil starvation that is well documented on here. I bet it was the number 4 bearing that went but you have the cause and effect backwards. The bearing went due too oil starvation not the bearing went and caused the starvation. Many of the incidents recorded here reference excessive silicone sealant that blocks the number 4 bearing oil channels causing the failure.
You are doing the right thing by lawyering up in this case as it really should be warranty work based on past history. You are not the first that they denied warranty for this though and not everybody won.


I will add my standard caution here. Be careful what you write here. This is a public forum and accessible to the Toyota legal department. If things get nasty they can and will twist things you say in a negative light and use them against you.

Hello jamison884 and welcome to our forum......:clap:

Too bad your car's engine gave out ..... :(

Something isn't adding up. Since your car wasn't modified, and the crankcase had oil in it ...... and it came unglued due to oil starvation, how could it be your fault ..... ??

I suspect the denial of warranty coverage has something to do with the language of the warranty. The devil may be in the details of the fine print of that "warranty" ...... :iono:

Good luck.


humfrz

Depends on the level of Toyota he is working with. Some dealers are willing to go to bat for their customers and push it to higher levels then just the consumer can achieve sometimes.

Thanks for the comments.

Just to follow-up on some items, I don't plan on going with their 10k/12k engine options if this doesn't get worked out, as I know that is excessive.

The case with Toyota is recorded with both my name and VIN attached, so a different dealership wouldn't get me anywhere. My dealership seems to be supportive and hasn't tried to rush my car or engine out of their garage, but at the same time I don't think they've actively fought for warranty coverage. I think its worth one final call to the dealership to let them know this isn't going anywhere without their potential assistance and see what they have to say.

When I initially opened the case I know they made it seem like it was a big issue that I didn't have my oil changed at the dealership, stating that I should contact the garage who performed the oil change to get this resolved, even though this wasn't an oil leak issue. I don't think this was the sticking point though, as the supposed engineer had denied the warranty claim already without asking/knowing about the oil change history. In fact, I don't have any proof the engineer even had knowledge of the correct volume of oil being in the engine at the time of failure since he checked the engine out after it had been drained.

I also had two separate Toyota reps. tell me to try and go through my insurance company when this wouldn't come close to comprehensive/collision coverage, so I guess they're just trying to place responsibility anywhere else but Toyota.

My 13 had a new motor installed under warranty after an unsuccessful short block replacement under warranty as well. Imo if the car is financed through Toyota and you are the original buyer, the bullshit is minimized. Used and purchased from another brand dealer creates problems imo.

My suggestion at this point: Get a written statement from the dealership saying the vehicle had the correct amount of oil in it at their check, and then lawyer up. It's gonna be a long haul.

Another '13 bites the dust. You are not the first one to have this issue, and I'm sure you won't be the last.

As TC pointed out, there was a post on here showing evidence of excessive silicone inside the engine blocking proper oil flow. And others showing a stuck valve on the cams that could effect oil flow too.

Sad that these issues keep happening and Toyota/Subaru often don't stand by their products.

Good luck and keep us posted!

I'd be hunting for a used engine for ~$3k and a shop willing to do the install if you couldn't do it yourself, I'd be surprised if it was anything more than $2k to bolt it in.

It blows that they're blaming you, but understandable without evidence of past oil changes given that it's a used car. This is one of the reasons a full service history is recommended on used cars and why several here wouldn't want a second hand 86. The shitty thing is I think odds are low it was anything the prior owner did as this is a not unheard of failure.

Hopefully if Toyota doesn't drag their feet (either way) and you can get a solution worked out in a few days and be back on the road asap. This car wrecked my faith in factory warranties, if my engine blew up this weekend I wouldn't bother calling up the dealership.

:cheers:

This is really sad to hear Toyota needs to do better with there standard warranty this is why I don't like taking my car to the dealership but at this I don't have a choice since I still have my warranty once it's done I will use mechanic that is well trusted. Good luck and I feel your pain on this dilemma.


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First of all, this really sucks and I wish this would be an easier process to help the consumer, (like you being able to file an appeal with the engineer or something), so you could point to the engineer and show proof you had proper oil in the car.

But I'll also say, the fact that you had proper oil in the car the moment you arrive at the dealership, probably does not mean much to the engineer at the time he looks at the hot spots in the engine (which proves oil starvation), because anyone can just top off the engine before taking it to the dealer and claim they just did an oil change the day before. Not implying or saying you did this at all... Just trying to see things from the other point of view. I hope the end result of this is you get compensated.

Given the amount of money at stake here, I would definitely find a good lawyer. As others have mentioned: (1) there have been instances of oil starvation on early models from assembly sealant blocking oil passageways, and (2) there have also been instances of variable valve timing issues leading to oil starvation (see video below starting from 4:30; Subaru/Toyota have done a number of revisions on this part).

Obviously no guarantees that either of those was the cause of failure, but perhaps your lawyer can present those issues to Toyota and get a goodwill or partial cost engine replacement for you.

[ame]http://youtu.be/7iw1Pdln8eI?t=4m30s[/ame]

Just contact Toyota and tell them you are giving them one final chance before you consult an attorney. Here's your warranty and dispute contact info. Warranty Attached as PDF

My hesitation, besides letting a big Company fail to honor their warranty, is if I put in a used engine for around $3k (removing labor expenses as a variable required for any solution), how much confidence can I really have this won't happen again?

At that point, wouldn't it be worth getting a built engine and going forced induction in one step? I don't even know if I have the confidence to put a supercharger on a stock engine at conservative boost levels if it isn't unheard of for a stock unit to fail.

I feel like I'm almost ready to just write this off, sell the shell for whatever I can get, and go with a different "fun" car. I leased a customized 335 m-sport before going with a cheaper two-car solution of a commuter & sports car that add up to about 1/3 of the BMW sticker price, but now I'm slowly thinking that combination of performance, comfort/features, and warranty may have been worth it.

I've consulted an attorney; please see this thread where I would require an expert witness to even begin the preparation process for a lawsuit: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...55#post2990755.