Which entry level turbo kit is the most responsive?
 

I'm moving to the mountains soon and near sea level my car (with a catless UEL header and tune) is just barely (not) fast enough... But at the elevation I'm moving too it's just an absolute pain. I'm looking to forced induction to remedy all my problems, but I don't want a kick-in-the-pants sort of rush, I want a steady build that starts fairly low, with no punchy spots that upset balance. Yyes I could go supercharger for that as well, and that's not off the table, but this thread is about turbos...)
I'm not looking for crazy numbers, 245-270 at the wheels is the range I'm looking at, much more and I feel it would upset the balance of the chassis with my current, very dialed in, set up.
I know that JDL and SBD both have a budget friendly option, anyone else amazing that I'm missing? I'd really love a twin scroll set up but that doesn't appear to be budget in any way... :cry:

Oh and I'd really like to retain the OEM bumper bar if at all possible too.

Not somuch the kit but the turbo used. Smaller turbos spool faster. Ball bearing turbos also increase schooling. The gtx28 is a good fit but some may think its to small if you want more than 400hp.

Not all turbos are equal. Some are oil cooled and some are water and oil cooled.

Get ready to break the bank.

Yeahhh these things I understand. A ball bearing twin scroll would be my go-to..... But that's not available in the basic kits unfortunately. I'm honestly just most curious what base kit has the best responsiveness. I can always upgrade a turbo later when I have more money... (I'm in college with a part-time job)
And I have no interest in even breaking 300whp, let alone 400 lol :iono:

i'd go with a EFR 6758.

"I'm looking to forced induction to remedy all my problems"

Heh heh heh.

Mo boost, mo problems.

AVO Stg 1

Like Member above said. AVO stage 1.

Known to be extremely reliable, but their stg 1 kit is only 230 - 250 whp. If you decide to spend 6 grand or so on the Avo Stage 2, still 250 - 270 whp. There's plenty of kits that can beat that WITH reliability and more power.

I personally have been NA this whole time and No Dynos but I am pretty sure I am around 230 whp. I am also in the market for a turbo. However, settling for low numbers like these for a kit after spending thousands of dollars seems pointless to me. To each is own. :)

No offense meant (really!), but I doubt you're making 230whp... I'm make 202whp, on a dynojet dyno, with a Gruppe-S UEL and an OFT e85 Tune (that I've revised to ensure the best power). Making over 200whp (i.e. 30ish whp over stock) NA is difficult as is, making DOUBLE that (over stock) NA is the definition of a tall order. Too my knowledge it's never been even close to done. But the real reason I'm looking at forced induction (besides always wanting about 25%-35% more power) is because I'm moving to a higher elevation and I can noticeably feel the car choking from the drop in ambient air pressure... To a point where it is no longer amazing to me.
Currently the SBD kit is at the top of my list. But I honestly don't want 280whp. I want 250whp, and faster spooling. Can a turbo wizard please help me out... What ball bearing turbo can I substitute into such a kit that will provide me with faster spoiling but lower peak numbers. I'm think a garret below the GT28X(?) class maybe?

Basically (prepare for an oversimplification) I'm curious if a Miata turbo will work. :lol: :lol:

:bonk: I meant close to 230 HP, not whp.

I have been researching kits for about 3 months. SBD and JDL are on the top for me. Watch You Tube videos, that what I mainly do. You will see a lot of youtubers happy with the SBD kit. I notice the SBD spools up about over 3000 (don't quote me on that).

Regardless it is a fast spool.

The only thing with SBD is i don't believe they have a ball bearing option. JDL does. Both are pretty affordable for being a turbo kit.

Ahhhhhhhh yeah 230 crank horsepower is probably about right then lol :bonk:
Yeah I'm test-driving a SBD sometime soon, so I should get s good feel of it there. I know the turbo they use is a bit bigger than what I'm looking for though :(
I just wish there was a 250whp super-fast-spooling option available... Maybe the SBD test drive will blow my mind though. *fingers crossed*

Just save a bit longer and get what you really want. The AVO kit cost a bit more (not that much more) but delivers the quick response you are looking for. SBD is good too but you will need a few other small things to get it going. Where in the revs are you usually? Plot that against the dynos and you will get your answer.

I've got a Garrett gtx2867r. Dyno tuned and 3" exhaust. I put down around 285whp, and the torque and power curves are really smooth.

It's a good amount of power. If it was less, I'd want more, and if it was more I'd shit myself at WOT. Already get to 100kmh(60mph) at the top of 2nd gear (or very close) in a bloody short amount of time :P

Honestly it feels like the right amount of juice.

https://i.imgur.com/hMJFRiR.jpg

If transient response and quick spool is the end all, be all... then look for the shortest cold side piping as possible, stay away from huge intercoolers, external wastegate with a boost controller, and a ball bearing turbo. You mentioned a miata turbo, I haven't seen anyone run a gt25 on this car yet. JDL with GT2860 would probably work perfectly.

Your exhaust set up and tune is also going to go a long way in regard to response and throttle feel.

I know I'm not supposed to go there, but.... if transient response is paramount then you really need to consider something else. Maybe something that rhymes with bloopercharger.

SBD offers an upgrade for $500 that gives you a GTX3076r vs the journal bearing 20G in the base kit.

anyone do twin scroll setup? these tend to spool a goodly amount before a single

JDL has one: https://jdlautodesign.net/shop/ft86-...oll-turbo-kit/

Haven't seen much talk about it on these forums though.

Yeah and big moneyyyy, at that point the edlebrock supercharger is attainable.

I'm not surprised its expensive, 2 wastegates?
I know its relatively new tech but still

Not really... I think people are just too used to the GReddy replica kit (SBD).

Also, why compare the Edelbrock when its a SC?

Just because once that price range is broken into (4.5K+) there's nothing that beats the Edlebrock in my opinion. I just neither need that much headroom, nor want to sink that much into any forced induction. I'd rather spend the difference in price on supporting mods to add reliability instead.
Entry level is my price range. If I could have any turbo kit it'd probably be the twin scroll JDL though.

If I were you and I were hooked on turbo at entry level price, I'd probably go with the SBD kit, maybe with a couple minor upgrades. The design is similar to Greddy's kit, they both use pretty short piping. The turbo is a base model but response looks to be ok - just keep in mind even the twin scroll kits will have 'laggy' transient response. Heck even OEM engineered BMW & Audi turbo motors with hyper responsive turbo setups have a slightly soggy throttle (IMHO). Not the snappy response of NA or a well tuned supercharged setup.

If you're after throttle response and don't care about mega power, how about one of those Sprintex kits? It's around your price range, will give you the transient throttle response you're looking for, and they sound pretty exotic too :)

Reliabity is a concern with that SC. Not that it is unreliable but be expected to pay more attention to whats going on and the temps. They sound super cool tho.

Hmmm maybe - I kinda feel that way about any FI kit really. They all have their strong points and caveats. If you're street driving, not running the smaller pulleys, and have the intercooler I think results have been solid. Caveat I don't have first hand experience - I know Moto Mike has a ton of experience with these kits, so he might be a good person to reach out to if you're considering this kit (or any for that matter). Cheers

LOL sorry to burst your bubble bud - everyone can get to 58mph in second gear.

That is a gearing thing and nothing to do with the amount of power you're putting down. The amount of time it takes to get there on the other hand....

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...65&postcount=2

Not unless he has different sized wheels.

I'm going to give you some advice. Try and test drive as many boosted 86's in as many configurations as you can before you settle on a decision. I did most of my research online and asking around and youtube before i settled on the Edelbrock. And let me tell you. I regret it. Not because the kit is bad or anything. The kit is amazing for the cost. Incredibly well built, good reliability, decent headroom for more power. And the most reliable twin screw supercharger out there.

So why dont i like it? It messed with the characteristics with the car too much. The throttle response is so different now. Power delivery is great but i can feel the parasitic load on the engine when i put my foot down. It makes the engine feel "heavier" if that makes any sense. The car doesnt feel like the light nimble thing it used to be.

Moral of the story? Cant beat first hand experience.

What are your plans going forward? If you had to do it over would you have tried a turbo or the Jackson SC, or maybe keep it NA with an ACE header + tune?

Sorry, probably should have put a time frame in that. :) no bubble burst.
Basically it's bloody quick... and you don't have enough time take stock of what's going on before you hit 100k and have to change.

I disagree. Myself, and others with the sprintex 210 have had zero issues since install. Personally, I believe there is so little that can go wrong with this kit. You just have to check the SC oil level every now and then.

My setup is quick, runs cool (on e85, a little warmer on 93) and has immediate throttle response, coupled with the sweet twin-scroll whine. I spent a total of $2400 on my entire setup (add +500 for e85 flex fuel kit) including tune. I'm somewhere between 270-290whp (depending on the day and the fuel), and its the perfect amount of power without having to tear into the clutch and drivetrain un-necessarily.

Granted...if I were tracking the car I would run the intercooled setup, with a lot of extra supporting mods. The sprintex puts out a lot of heat when on a track.

But for me, as a DD, its the best budget setup that is reliable.

EDIT: I didn't even mention the torque. The sprintex (like the edelbrock) delivers torque in low RPMs. I try to avoid putting my foot down under 3000rpm (for fear of the rod integrity with all the torque in that area), but the strength of the pull from 3000+ is astounding. I don't notice the parasitic load on the engine with the SC personally... It's easy to forget when the entire rev range pulls more smoothly than stock, even when barely getting on the gas.

Sure we do ;)

SBD500X!

https://spdbydesign.com/product/sbd5...-brzscion-frs/

How long have you had the kit? I keep getting mixed reviews of it but lately I have been hearing more positive than negative. Glad you are enjoying the kit.

I've had the kit on for ~5000 miles or so i'd bet. I've talked to others who have had it on for ~50,000+ miles however. I was skeptical before purchasing the kit that there might be problems, simply based upon all of the comments in the FI Sprintex thread. Most issues were due to improper installation (for instance, I had a stutter that I couldn't figure out for a while, but it turned out to be that I forgot to install a bolt into the injector ECU which was affecting the electrical grounding). There have been a few instances of belts shredding, but those are few-and-far-between. Mechanically, there isn't much to go wrong that I can see, and if non-intercooled there aren't any connections that can come-undone.

If I had to do FI all over again, I'd investigate the new JDL turbo kit, as that would let me retain my UEL header. Retention of the UEL header is one of the reasons I began looking into SC FI in the first place. I just couldn't bear to switch to an EL header :)

If i had to do it all over again i'd probably go turbo or Jackson SC.

Theres a lot to be said about NA though. After driving this car both NA (stage 1 and 2 with UEL) and going the SC route. What i think this car needs is what the Fiesta ST has. A small turbo to bring the torque up but keep the Horses around 200-220 ish.

The small amount of turbo lag i think actually would compliment the way this car already drives NA and the kick in the pants you get when boost hits is the push everyone is craving for when you step on it.

Massive power is fun i'm sure but i think its more of a e-peen comparison than actually making the car drive well. Not saying high numbers isnt fun but IMHO to make this car drive perfect all it needs is the Fiesta ST treatment.

Sorry but I respectfully disagree
more power is better
in anything more power is better
and when you have more power , you want more still
They say Power corrupts and I say yes
Isn't it great?

Haha yeah I think most people think that way. I'm of a completely different mind set. Doesn't matter how fast I go. If the car doesn't "feel" right to me then I won't like it as much. Even if I was pushing 1000hp


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We are not talking here about building a time attack car. Right?

I think it is all about the senses of the driver. Some will sense all the fine details, like the steering wheel or the throttle responsiveness or the overall balance and others will sense only power by any means. Fact is that the first route is more difficult to achieve (or improve) and also very difficult to express in numbers. Additionally, it is not always available to the driver. In most cases you'll need an appropriate road to enjoy it. However, it is an option and it is within the spirit of what the designers wanted to provide.

thing is most modern fast cars are so quick that you need a racetrack to exploit them
but a tuned up car which is too powerful for its own good will always raise a smile from me

you don't have to push the loud pedal all the way down all the time after all.
and the '86 is a fine chassis thats crying out for more power so you can exploit it

Yeah I'm one of those "sense everything" kind of drivers. Hell I'm the AutoX chair for the largest college sportscar club in the country, so I'm all about precision. The goal of my build is to take a car that was good, but delivered effectively unfinished, and improve on it: not transform it. I want more grip, but similar weight transfer; more torque and power, but no moment of upset; better aesthetics, but not at the cost of weight, handling, or performance.
However, when it all comes down to it: I'm moving into the mountains for a while and the altitude is choking my car pretty bad; forced induction is the only real way I can see of fixing that.