Motor won't turn over
 

On the way to work yesterday my car died at a red light. Tried to crank it back up and it died within 4 seconds and wouldn't turn over any longer. My battery was at 11.9v, so i figured the Alt died and I just need to charge the battery and replace the Alt. Had it towed to the house and popped a spare battery in there that is fully charged and it still won't turn over.

Oil and coolant look good. If the Alt seized up would it prevent the car from turning over? When I go to start it you can hear the starter trying to turn and all the light go dim. i suspect that its drawing a lot of juice from the battery but can't spin the fly wheel.

Kinda scared that something in the motor locked up, but with the battery being dead, I keep thinking its something with the Alt as well.

Thanks,
Joe

Will have nothing at all to do with the alternator. Even at 11.9 volts the car should crank since that is well within the operating specs of a 12 volt battery.
Have you done anything to the engine? Bone stock?
I hate to say it but I am not optimistic for you with the info that you have given so far.

Well, now, @Urmyson, before you start doing major parts replacements, I would strongly suggest that you take your "spare" battery down to a shop and have it "load tested". It may show 12V but may not have the umph to turn over the engine.

Then come back ...... ;)


humfrz

The spare battery is brand new. I put a jump box on it as well and it did the same thing.

Nope, not a battery or charging issue (the total reverse of what I say about 99% of the time in these no start threads).
Starter maybe, flywheel possibly but I am going with something seized. I truly hope I am wrong on this armchair diagnosis but stand by that thought until more info is available.

So if the Alt was seized up would the belt just spin over the seized pulley and smoke?

Yes. And you wouldn't have 11.9 volts in the battery.
Have you done any mods to the car?
How is the oil and coolent levels?
When it stopped did it make any noises or any other odd action?

Oil and Coolant look good, I didn't see any metal in the oil. I'm running a ESC and OFT, so I'm not stock. When it first died it didn't make any odd sounds, but when I started it back up it ran for a few seconds and I did hear a clunk and it died again.

You can easily check to see if the engine is locked by putting the car in gear and pushing it.

Yep. Used to be able to pull the plugs and grab the fan to see if the engine would turn but that day is long gone.

OK so the fact it is FI, started and then died again and made a clunk is rather important info to have.
No oil on the ground or in the pans under the car?
The ESC didn't seize up on you? (Oh wait. No belts. Never mind that one)

Nope no oil on the road or leaking from what I can see.

OK so now try pushing the car like Billwot said. If it moves at least the engine isn't seized. If it doesn't move ...
If it does move and you have the space you could try to bump start it but there is some rick in that depending on what is wrong.

Prop valve train/rocker issue

put a box end wrench on the harmonic damper screw and see if you can turn the engine by hand.

Turn it slowly and only clockwise (from the perspective of looking at the front of the engine)

He seems to have disappeared!

You know I never thought of that. May be pretty hard to turn with the plugs in it though since the compression is so high.

I thought about going back to mention that. The compression is amazing but you can get through it just turning slowly and letting it bleed down.

Would have been a handy trick with my old Ghia or Corvair. I never figured out an easy way to move those. About 35 years too late though.

Never too late. :cheers:

HMMMM

Do it! A colleague of mine is a Corvair guy. They're awesome.


shit, I fell for it. Tried to click on the pictures.

I put a socket on the crank pulley and I was able to turn it counter clockwise about maybe 2 turns and then it got tight. then I can go clockwise about the same before it gets really tight. I didn't want to put a lot of force into it because I don't know exactly what I'm doing though.

If the motor was locked up would it turn at all?

Well, if you turned it counterclockwise, you just loosened the bolt/nut. Then you turned it clockwise and tightened it back up. So, no real turning of the crank.


humfrz

It turned the crank, all the pulleys and belt moved at least. But I put very little force into it either way. I can put a breaker bar on it, but I'm afraid I'll just break something else.

As discussed above, I'm not so sure anyone except a big guy like @Ultramaroon could turn a crank using a box end wrench. Maybe yes, with a socket and breaker bar ....... if you could get one in there.

I just remember how difficult it was to crank the old engines, even with their low compression and using the leverage of a hand crank.


humfrz

*sigh* Never turn an engine backwards unless you know exactly how it affects it.

It's ok if it gets hard to turn in a springy way. That's normal. Just go slowly and let the cylinder pressure bleed down. You're looking to feel for a hard mechanical bind. If you feel that then you've already found what has broken. Not going to break it more. Not by hand.

If you can get 2 full rotations of the crankshaft then you have made it through a full rotation of the camshafts. You can consider it ok to turn over with the starter.

Like mentioned above, crank it a ways clockwise till you feel resistance, then wait till the compression bleeds off, then turn it some more (still clockwise).

If you can get the crankshaft to make a full revolution, that would indicate that the engine is not completely locked up.

However, that doesn't mean you are completely out of the woods ...... you could still have a spun bearing that the starter motor can't overcome.

Where did @Ultramaroon and @Tcoat run off to ....... church ......??


humfrz

Hey, I'm here.


...doing laundry.

Well, I got the vacuum out of the closet ........ waiting for mrs humfrz to get into the shower ...... so the noise doesn't disturb her while she is reading the Sunday paper........:wub:


humfrz

She reads it in the shower?

Check your reading comprehension there old one, I said "waiting for her to get INTO the shower".

Sorry, I'm a bit concerned right now ...... I have a bad nose bleed. I should not have vacuumed the whole house at on time ....... I over done ...... now, I have a nose bleed.

This will call for laying my head back for a couple of hours ....... before I mop the hard surfaced floors.

Meanwhile, @Urmyson ........ did you get your engine to turn over ..... ??


humfrz

Right. Don't want to disturb her reading in the shower so you're waiting.

Sorry about your nosebleed. :(

Well, whatever.

Yep, a nosebleed (left unchecked) could drain all of my super-thinned blood from my body in a few minutes, so it seems.

If I cut myself shaving, our bathroom looks like the shower scene from the movie "Psycho" .....:eyebulge:


humfrz

Your blood is black and grey?

http://cdn2-www.comingsoon.net/asset...choSonnet8.jpg

And tastes like chocolate syrup?

But on the subject of nose bleeds: tipping your head back is an "old wives tale" that results in nothing but a possible upset stomach from swallowing blood...

Head forward and squeeze/compress your nostrils firmly for 3-5 minutes.

:clap: ........ Yep, ol Tcoat remembers the B&W movies ....... :D



humfrz

:slap: ....... HEY! ...... "Doctor nextcar" ...... hesh up .........that was my excuse for taking a two hour nap, when I still had the hard surfaced floors to mop ....... :mad0259:


humfrz

Have you tried pushing it yet?
I am very interested to know what is going on with this one.

Sorry for all the playing in the thread. We normally don't do that in the tech sections.

@Ultramaroon started it with his laundry talk ...... :eyebulge:

@Urmyson , you may have to drag your car into a shop if you are stumped.

Trying to push start it isn't going to hurt it much anymore if it's busted up inside and it just may turn the engine over if it ain't.

So, what is your plan ..... ??


humfrz

I have an auto and it does move in gear, but I'm not sure if that helps since its an auto. I put it in reverse and was able to roll it down the driveway a few feet, then in drive and push it back up.