2017 BRZ vs MX5 RF
 

Comparison review

http://www.caradvice.com.au/518491/m...rz-comparison/

I don't know why I still read these, since I drive a 2017, and previously drove a 2016.

Still can't get enough BRZ media.

Mazda has had a lot more time to polish and perfect their Miata too, love both cars though.

It will be interesting to see the BRZ Premium Club v MX5 RF Club. The MX5 Club has come with 17x7s in the past for front brakes only, and this year it costs 3400 as an option. The remote keyless entry is also another 300 option on the Club version.

Maybe that is outside of the RF's wheelhouse. Interesting, none the less.

Thank you for sharing the article.

this seems like a pretty cherry picked comparison

Article is pretty much spot on.

How so? The RF looks great, but many people who have sat in the car seem to say the same stuff.

Compared to the softtop the RF weighs more, has worse visibility, costs more, has less cargo space, and no real extra rigitidy. Mazda really should have made a legitimate fixed top coupe, not a Miata Del Sol.

Nice review. That's the first time I've seen reviewers prefer the power in the BRZ. Either the RF's weight gain makes a big difference or the updates to the FA20 have paid off.

because you can make a case for both when you look at torque and HP..

Miata - 155-148/2381 - 15.36 pounds per HP, 16.09 pounds per lb ft of torque
86 - 205-158/2809 - 13.70 pounds per HP, 17.78 pounds per lb ft of torque

..explains why most reviewers, who probably aren't banging the test cars off the limiter, prefer the Miata's acceleration but at the top of the revv range the 86 still feels a bit faster and is able to keep up on most tracks despite the tires having less grip.

The Miata/86 comparison will never be fair, the two cars aren't really after the same mission and even as a 86 lover I can agree as a 2nd/weekend car, the Miata probably is a slightly better pick (500 pounds is a big difference) whereas the 86 is much more suitable overall as a DD/main car despite having the firmer ride.

Yep I think that's a fair assessment.

Agreed. It really comes down to what you want/need from a car. The 86 doesn't really have a competitor, so the Miata/Fiata is the next closest thing.

I was going to say "Really? After 28 years people are still asking this?"

Then I remembered how I saw a 'mid-engined Corvette' article a few days back so fuck it, guess I have to live with people spouting this garbage for the rest of my life too.

What's your point, that Mazda will never make a Miata coupe?

http://drivenwheels.com/wp-content/u...upe-1-of-1.jpg

The price gap is still the biggest issue.

$5k buys you headers, tune, coils and tyres. At that point the miata is toast.

The miata advantage is it has a larger following and lots more older guys with deeper pockets.

if you mean the rf, sure. if you mean the miata, youre wrong. i feel like the fact that you said "coils" or didnt include tires or brakes in your 5k build, means it might be hard to explain but still.

Yeah I included 'tyres'. The article was Australian, no?

Oh good, you posted the reason Mazda will never do that again so I don't have to.

The Miata is >400 lbs lighter, has a shorter wheelbase, and has better suspension design. The Miata advantage is that it's chassis is the least compromised, most focused design under $50k.

The following isn't terribly large, the 86 outsold the NC after only 3 years, and the ND is putting up worse numbers than the NC did.

RF adds another ~175-200lbs. The big weight advantage isn't so big anymore.

my bad on the tires thing. i think the point still stands.

So even though Mazda made a Miata coupe for both the NA and NB, it's suddenly ridiculous to wish they made another coupe?

Did you just put down a deposit on an RF or something? You seem a little tender.

They tried to sell them and nobody bought them. If demand was there they would sell them.

No, I just think that too many people think car companies do things on a whim when these things cost hundreds of millions of dollars to develop. That's what is ridiculous, assuming that these simple ideas aren't explored regularly by auto manufacturers.

"Why doesn't it have more power?!?!"
"Why isn't it lighter?!?!"
"Why doesn't it have a hatch?!?!"

"How hard can it be?!?!"

Have you seen the resale prices on a legitimate Miata coupe? Obviously there is some demand for them.


There are plenty of examples of "loss leaders" in automotive history, and I think that if Mazda brought a Miata fixed top coupe to the states in limited numbers it would become an instant classic, while getting a lot of attention from people who don't usually like Miatas. Especially considering that they won't be building an RX9.


Instead they gave us something that doesn't really have a purpose aside from looking good. You talk about low weight and suspension geometry, but I don't see why anyone would choose a RF over a vert if they had any desire to track their car occasionally. Can an average size person with a helmet even fit in a RF with the top up?

No I haven't, but I have seen prices for M Coupes though, they rival new M cars.

http://www.mcoupebuyersguide.com/listings

http://www.mcoupebuyersguide.com/listing?ListingID=3920

The bottom line is that the <100 people willing to pay for that car every year to keep the market moving is not enough to justify the tens of millions of dollars it would cost to start rolling them out of the factory.

Same exact story for the Miata coupe, sounds like at best they built a few hundred. Loss Leaders only work if the loss isn't astronomical or the company has cash to burn (Ford subsidizes higher Mustang trims with lower trim sales, and Toyota LFA, respectively), Mazda is not in that position anymore, (nor Subaru in a tangent). They NEED to sell enough to not take millions of dollars of losses on the project, <1k units won't cut it unless each one is priced over $50k. That's why special Porsche's cost so much, it's not the materials or engineering, it's the low production volume relative to the costs of developing each individual model.

As for the validity of the RF, lots and lots of people bought the PRHT for the NC, this article claims it was the majority actually, 52-48

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/11/2...ardtop-report/

The sad fact is most people don't buy sports cars to drive them hard, appreciate nimbleness and suspension geometry in a way where <100 lbs makes a difference. The durability and security of the hardtop is a clear win if you can take the performance hit.

Interesting you mention weight, the NA coupe concept was apparently significantly heavier and they had no plans to optimize the weight.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...miata-m-coupe/

And looking at the brochure for the NB coupe, it clocked in at 1100 kg w/ the 1.8L compared to 2387 lbs for a US spec 1.8L, so about 35 lbs heavier for the coupe assuming fluids are the same in both measurements.

http://s110.photobucket.com/user/saz..._0002.jpg.html

So "tried to sell them" means only available in the JDM?

To me, "tried to sell them" would have meant available in the biggest sports car market in the world, AKA America.

But that's just me...?:iono:

:iono: I wasn't there either, probably didn't want to go through US crash testing.

idk you'd hope Mazda has better market analysis than some guy on the internet. There's a reason we don't get lots of things, cost is high, rewards are low. I can't fathom a reason why they wouldn't sell many things here if they were projected to be profitable, Mazda6 Wagon, M wagons, Renaults, etc.

If Mazda developed a Sky-Activ dildo that was projected to be a billion dollar product they'd fucking create a subsidiary and put it on the market by the end of the year. Corporations have little shame, nor pride when it comes to making profits.

#Hitachi

The review highlighted many factors that matter in a way that other reviews have not (especially how MSRP on a low cost car really matters, and also about how factory suspension settings affect day to day livability.) I thought this was one of the more thoughtful reviews on the subject I've seen.

I don't disagree with those points, but that doesn't mean "they tried".

Furthermore, you're forgetting one of the biggest reasons they never took the Miata coupe beyond concept form. At that time Mazda ALREADY had a 2 door fixed roof coupe. Perhaps you've heard of it, it was called the RX-7:thumbup:
Hell, depending on the year they already had TWO 2 door fixed roof coupes - the other being the MX-6.

How many 2 door coupes does Mazda currently have? Oh yeah, zero.:bellyroll: :laughabove:

In 2003 it was just the RX-8 when the NB coupe was in production. The fact that they don't make one now is even more evidence that they don't believe they can make a viable product for that niche.

:cheers:

Production? There has never been a production Miata coupe. Repeating it won't change that.

Which makes me sad, because Mazda makes great drivers cars. I'd even be happy with a new MS3 at this point. :frown:


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...5odxsxckz8.png


https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/...0/73717421.jpg

they had limited numbers made for Japan.

The MX-5 is a great car, but actually not a huge money maker for a manufacturer.

Mazda spend a lot of time and money engineering the car, and development cost is high for a car that sells limited number worldwide.
"Sport Car" in general don't sell a lot especially at this price point, Mazda makes much more money selling Crossover SUV than the MX-5.
The reason they keep doing it after so long is because it is an image of Mazda with a loyal following.

If you look at other manufacturer, most have "given up" on such a sport car at entry level price.
Toyota no longer makes the MR-S, No more Pontiac Solstice, etc.
The only sport car really left seems to be the higher premium product such as the Boxster, Cayman, Jaguar F-Type, etc.

In terms of the ND, it is good but also a difficult car to work with.
We had loads of problem racing them in the first year, and a lot of the issue been slowly ironed out now.
So 2017 should be a better year of racing for the ND.

Jerrick

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28xb64AP6BU"]RARE, Factory-built: 2004 Mazda Roadster Coupe, Type S - Sports Model (MX-5 / Miata - NB8C) - YouTube[/ame]

Is it just me or does the MX5 look taller and pudgier because of the sexy roof?

Just looks that way because of the roof's color. Black always looks lower because it blends into the background of everything.

Add 2 extra seats and that will make them equal in weight.

Good write up in this months Evo magazine, RF vs GT86. GT86 seen as the better sports car, "..there's great pleasure to be had engaging with the drivetrain. It also feels the better-made product, puts you in greater touch with the action and has a greater depth of ability, from its feedback to its willingness to raise its game when you raise yours."

the roof added a LOT of aerodynamics and it seems the upper end speed and acceleration is notably improved. RF in machine metal gray looks sick also. Just an awesome looking car.

Interesting. Given the price point and intended audience, I would've expected the Miata RF to show better quality.

It sounds like a lot of people are unhappy with the roof mechanism. The location of the button, and the time it takes to put the roof down. IIRC, you can't adjust the roof while the car is in motion. I could be wrong though.