Ace and Nameless header comparison
 

Hello all,

I just switched from the Nameless header to the Ace and wanted to share my experience. This is on my STX prepped car, mods are identical between dynos other than the related front pipe/over pipe. Both tuned by Church via ecutek, same dynapack, runs are 2.5 years apart. CA 91 oct.

Mods:
TRD intake
Perrin 2.5" resonated CBE

Nameless setup:
Early release tri-y header w/3" outlet
Nameless 3" over/front pipe w/cat, resonator and helmholtz. Tapers to 2.5" at CBE.

Ace setup:
Type A 350 tri-y header and over pipe
JDL 2.5" front pipe w/cat and resonator (ultra quiet)

Green is Nameless, blue is Ace

http://i.imgur.com/Q6VITKF.jpg

So did this come out as you expected or...

In before it gets too hot in here :popcorn:

Was hoping for more out of the Ace, but I think my expectations were a little too far removed from reality haha.

Is that running 93 or e85?

Good old CA 91.

Sorry for the 20 questions. Picked up an ACE 350 over winter as well here so will be trying it out this spring. I'm coming from a stock header and over pipe though vs other aftermarkets.

Awesome, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Seems like the Ace and Nameless are the best options right now.

Thanks for posting this!

So I've heard. To bad you were not able to get back to back runs with the different setups in the same day :/

I went from Nameless to Ace and never looked back.

Still had a big torque dip with the Namless from 3200-4400 or so.

My Ace has a small dip from 2250-2750, but that's a low enough RPM that's it's not really noticeable (unless you're @Decay107 and looking for a reason to shit on my EL hawtness).

edit: I'll add that tomei/gruppe-s is the way to go. I don't like UEL/bro sounds, so that's why I will forever be mocked for spending too much money for within-spitting-distance results).

I'm shocked!

Thats ok the EL sound is the sound of power :P

Nice! I've been wanting to see a comparison between these two headers.

:bs:

Truths. Had JDM Twinscroll EL goodness on my wrx. All the kiddies with the vf39 sti turbos were sad pandas.

Doesn't apply here.

Doug's dyno with tomei (and catless?) and my Ace/350 dyno with JDL UQFP are nearly the same. Vit tuned both cars.

It's hard to argue with $/hp with the tomei and gruppe-s setups.

Different engine is different. I hate the UEL sound, but the Tomei gives all the power and all the torque for cheap. The downside is that it sounds like it's down a cylinder all the time :/

Edit: For reference, I went from Nameless to Tomei UEL, 100% satisfied with results.

Yes i understand its a different motor. However both with el headers vs uel sound better and perform better at the rpm range you drive on a daily basis

But I red line my car on a daily basis, all the time.

Yes but where is 75% of your driving occuring.

Not on this platform. Also I'm a track junkie and @e1_griego is an autocrosser, so it's not like we're driving around at 2500rpm all day long. The Tomei UEL makes as much top end power and more torque than anything I've seen besides the Ace (which it ties)

http://blog.vittuned.com/just-a-coup...-vs-tomei-uel/

Well this is interesting. I am on my 4th BRZ and I am going ACE 350 again. Previously i had the OFH and then the Tomei. Both were okay for the money. I never dynoed the Tomei. And truth be told, the dyno i did of the ACE was good, but i wasnt shocked by what i saw.

But there was no mistaking the ACE difference in response and power compared to the OFH and even the Tomei. All 3 of those were on MY15, my 13 BRZ was turboed so no dice.

I have never had the Nameless. But i am curious, which generation of header are they on now. I know they have refined their design at least a few times. And, it shows they keep finding more power. So good for them, my ACE goes on my 17 PP this weekend and i am still thrilled with the ACE performance. But if the dyno comparison is any indication of progress, good job Nameless.

I am a bit of an ACE fanboy, and those results make look twice at the nameless.

No dyno means off the shelf tune? Those results are meaningless when compared to a tune specifically calibrated for a single car (no, OFT and OFH combo doesn't count)

Doug (Decay) and I had a similar Nameless experience -- still had a torque dip. Yes the peak numbers might be ok, but the whole point of the header/tune is getting more area under the curve. I was sucked in by their amazeballs dyno plot that turned out to be bullshit. I'm sure Doug's story is the same.

Like I posted, the Ace fixes that, and the Tomei fixes that. Is the Ace worth the extra money? Not really, only if UEL sound bothers you (like it does me).

Ultimately every header discussion is basically splitting hairs over 5whp....

Well actually the Ace was a canned tune as well. I had dynoed the OFH ad OFT and the ACE. But none of my setups were dyno tuned, nor did any have any e-tune revisions. They were tunes that were canned, never specific to my car.
I simply put the car on a dyno to read power levels, thats it. No tuning was done on the dyno or otherwise.

This is true. My previous BRZ was a track only car till it was destroyed. And, the ACE worked very well for me then
.

I'm very surprised by the results and my initial thought is that either Nameless Performance has made a leap in their latest revision header or your tuner isn't getting the most out of your ACE Header unit. The ACE header requires extensive cam timing manipulation to get optimal power and drivability - how much experience does Church Automotive Testing have with the ACE header? Delicious Tuning and CounterSpace Garge worked jointly on the development maps and testing for the manufacturer and they're both pretty close to the original poster, so he may want to see if Delicious Tuning can get more out of the ACE header than Church Automotive Testing did.

The numbers just don't look right to me - @DeliciousTuning, @CSG Mike, and @CounterSpace Garage do you guys have any thoughts on what's going on here?

The runs are 2.5 years apart? I can't say for certain that would cause any sort of difference, but it might be nice to have more recent data for the nameless header. Not saying the ace header should be better, but that's a pretty long time.

I would bring up a few points.

- This is great that the same dyno is being used!
- This is a dedicated AutoX car, with 2.5 years of competition on the motor. The motor may be getting tired.
- Shawn generally will slightly detune competition cars, to help them survive longer, especially street driven ones.
- Winter blend gas (Ace) vs Summer blend gas (Nameless).

P.S. my car makes more with the stock front pipe on... which tells me something is causing a power reduction. My car also has smaller gains on Ethanol than the original 2015 car used for testing, which only tells me that my 91 tune even more spot on.

Because I trust a FnG tune from Delicious more than i trust any BRZ tuner within 500 miles of me. And, the FnG tune worked so damn well, with no problems i never felt the need to mess with it.

Note: My cars were dynoed on a COBB dyno, they arent real keen on tuning with Ecutek. But i trust their dyno results.
And love hanging at the shop.

As for the other two headers, well there wasnt time to fiddle while i was testing them out. I used them as is with the most appropriate canned tunes. I have ran 4 BRZs in 3 years time, with a number of products installed. You can say I am a car-aholic. I am not great racer, but i love hitting the track and fiddling with cars. But i dont always have time to go get custom pro-tunes on all my cars.

If it makes you feel better and less confused by my actions, my Golf R and my Wife's Cayman have had all the good treatment they deserve. And have been properly protuned. But sometimes MY toys dont get all the love in our household. Still, regardless dyno sheet or no dyno sheet. My ACE destroyed the other two headers i had, in every way that i can judge a piece of pipe.

I'm sure the nameless is great, but i have no personal experience with it.

Sorry my opinion or choices arent up to your standards. I am just sharing what experience i do have with my limited free time.

I'll add weather conditions, engine/oil temperature, could also account for the power differences. I'm not saying that IS that case, but it COULD be. And after two and a half more years of tuning this platform Church might run things a little differently now than he did originally. Then there's dyno calibration, operator differences (as in how the car was strapped down)...


In all reality, the only thing we can really take from these two dynos is that the headers are close for most of the range, but down low the Nameless header still has the dip. If that part of the rpm range is of concern to you, the decision is obvious. If it's not, well go with what ever makes you happy.

On a different note. Is the nameless putting out a lot heat into the engine bay? I mean, its no turbo but its positioned right in front of the engine and behind the radiator. It has to heat things up at least from radiant heat. The intake temps could rise over the course of a 20mins session more than they would with the ace I assume?

EL>UEL.

http://www.clearlynewmexico.com/wp-c...sAreTalkng.jpg

Yes, I melted my intake box when I ran it. No problems at all with track driving, but waiting in line at autocross or stuck in traffic saw the whole intake system heat soak. Also, I melted my fans a little.

Fair enough, it just seemed silly to me to spend so much on exhaust and not have a custom calibration, but I could see it if there are not any tuning options locally. It is not about my "standards" though, it's that comparing any two headers in a way that is not data driven in meaningless. Comparing two headers using the same base map is meaningless. My current assumption is as follows, let me know if there are any errors.

Car #1, OFT and OFH
Car #2, OFT and Tomei
Car #3, Delicious FnG and Ace
Car #4, Delicious FnG and Ace

Now you have me really curious, what caused you to go through 4 BRZs in 4 years?!?

OP's fans were also melting with his Nameless header. Performance of the fans was not yet compromised, but it's obvious that the plastic was getting soft and bubbling/melting.

Comparing two headers using the same base map is meaningless.

I agree with that, my intention wasnt too give a full comparison, i was just sharing my previous experience and thoughts on it in the thread. I am really curious about the Nameless performance. I have never been able to take a BRZ as far as I want to. Which leads me to answer your last question down below.



My current assumption is as follows, let me know if there are any errors.

Car #1, OFT and OFH (FBM Turbo kit)
Car #2, OFT and Tomei (OFT/OFH then Tomei/Ecutek)
Car #3, Delicious FnG and Ace (yes)
Car #4, Delicious FnG and Ace (yes and soon to have EBSC as well)

Now you have me really curious, what caused you to go through 4 BRZs in 4 years?!?

Oh man, this could be a long story. And there have been many other project cars to discuss. But i wont get into those. My daughter came along last year, and since I have cooled my jets and I am really only working on the BRZ now. And hopefully, I get to keep this one. But here goes......

In short, 2 of my previous BRZs were in accidents. My first MY13 was an icy encounter on a bridge. 8 cars were involved. I was one of the unlucky ones. That was my WRB BRZ with FBM kit. I have a pic of that below.

Then my second car (which i had for a little over a year) was traded towards the Cayman i mentioned before. That was primarily the wifes car. But in time i talked her into us needing a BRZ along with her P-car. The cayman was great, but the bRZ was more fun for the money to me.

So the 3rd BRZ was picked up Dec 2015, it was t-boned last July. An old man tried to shoot a gap between two trucks ( i live in big truck land, south of Oklahoma City,OK) and my Subie was sitting right in between them. I was knocked into the curb right in front of a Mcdonalds. Didnt look to bad, despite some air bags. But the suspension and frame were a mess.

Other cars have come and gone to a degree. But for the money, I really enjoy the BRZ plus it is much cheaper to maintain than other cars i have dabbled with. So I am back into my 4th one, 7 months later. My wife thinks maybe i am not meant to be in a BRZ, considering my luck with them. I am convinced that all my neighbors are out to get me in my little Suzuki, or at least that is what they think i am driving. But in the land of V8 muscle, driving a BRZ gets you into all kinds stupid nonsense.

And, yes i still have my S2000 shown as my avatar.

Edit - The wife also tracks and AXs occasionally. In addition, before trading the 2nd BRZ i was about to get a proper tune for the Tomei. Again, with timing..it never materialized.



http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1486755757

Way to show brand loyalty :thumbsup:

FWIW I'm in the boat with custom tunes - I'd have a custom tune for my P&L EL 4-1 long tube if I weren't getting rid of it for my supercharger kit.

I don't know much about the ACE, but it looks a whole lot different than the nameless header. I would think they all would benefit quite a bit from custom tunes - the cam timing (which can also affect ignition timing and afr) is probably going to be significantly different between the designs. Then again I'm not a tuner so whatever I say is from limited experience :)

They're quite similar. I would venture to say that they're more similar to each other than to anything else on the market. They both extend primary and secondary runners to allow for benefits such as better scavenging. The real difference would be primary/secondary lengths and diameters. This is not accounting for build and materials quality.