Car not starting on first turn of key (not even cranking)
 

So for 3 days now when the car is cold I turn the key and nothing happens (no cranking or anything). I turn the key off and back on and it starts right up. My car usually starts right up on first try. I dont think its the battery since it starts right up when I turn it the second time. Any clue? Also its a automatic.

Did you change anything recently?

Nope

OK sounds silly but try replacing the battery in your key. If it is low it may be taking the disabler a bit to grab the signal. Had that issue with my wife's car.

My spare key does not have a battery in it. Its the valet key. I can try that and see if it works.

Also, you may try nudging the shift lever while it's in the park position.


humfrz

Seems silly, but it's not.

Had a friend that I sold a Kia Rio to years ago. she called me in a panic one day, saying she was having trouble starting the car.

Turns out something was jammed in her shifter, not allowing the car to go fully into park. Any automatic car, of course, has to be in "park" or "neutral" in order to start. The parking pin was going in, allowing the car to actually "park" and not roll away, but the sensor in the shifter assembly was not registering the shifter as being in the "park" position, thus telling the computer to not allow the car to start.

Tighten up all the connections on your battery too.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Let me make a wild guess...

This happens when you get in, turn the key from full off, all the way to start immediately without pausing. Nothing happens. Release to "ON" and try again, and it fires up immediately...

If I am correct, then I had your exact same problem, except on an MT car.

I've looked over the starting circuit thoroughly, and all I can say is either you have a sticky relay or a bad battery. Here's the justification.

Unfortunately, on this car, the ground path for the start relay doesn't go straight to the battery, it vanishes into the ECM at pin 26, and then goes god-knows-where. We like to call ECU's "logic boxes" in my field... And they make troubleshooting a ROYAL B*TCH.

Either way, there is undoubtedly start logic in the ECM that controls this ground. if you close the contacts for the two start switches in the key switch before all the other relays close and everything is powered, nothing happens. There is start-inhibiting logic somewhere in the ECU... Pity there's no documentation of any kind... Sigh, logic boxes.

All it took to solve my problem was pausing a half-second at "ON" before turning the key all the way to "Start"... But it was irritating, because I didn't have to do that when the car was new. Charging the battery made the problem go away for a while, and I didn't want to start chasing relays.

Anyway, If your battery is older, and the charge retention has gotten worse, and the cold start voltage is down, it may not have the initial "kick" to close all the relays in the fraction of a second that it takes you to rotate the key all the way from off to start.

In older cars, it didn't matter, because the key switch went straight to ground, but in this car it doesn't...

For example, on an old MT car, if you turn the key to "START" first, and then depress the clutch, as soon as the clutch bottoms out the engine will crank, because the clutch switch completes the starting circuit. BUT on the FRS, you do the same thing, and nothing happens. Start is inhibited by the ECU because it wasn't in a "ready" condition when the key closed the "Start" switches.

On your car, you have no clutch switch, you have a neutral inhibitor relay in the AT shifter which completes the same logic circuit, but it's the same concept.

The TL : DR here is it's going to be hard or impossible to determine exactly what the problem is. Try charging your battery and see what happens.

This is my exact problem. The issue seems to have fixed itself since it worked yesterday after work and this morning it started without a problem. The only thing that has changed in the 4 days is the weather. When it was in the 40-50's the past 3 days the problem started. Yesterday it started to warm back up into the 60's and it seems to work again. Could just be coincidence but that's the only thing that has changed. My battery is only 1 year old and all the connections are tight.

Your issue doesn't sound like the starter battery at all. If you turned the key and had slow crank or just clicks and no crank then the battery would be suspect. When you turn the key and there is nothing at all but it starts without hesitation on the second tray it means the battery is fine but you are not getting signal to the ecu for some reason. A bad switch wouldn't care what temperature it is and should be repeatable no matter what the weather conditions are so you need to keep digging.

I knew it was not a battery issue. I was just stating it for the person who thought it might be. Something else happened yesterday again I am a bit worried about. I had the car in sport mode, came to a stop and the car stuttered like it was gonna stall. Like the idle was to low. It leveled out after about 2 secs and was find but it seems to happen occasionally now. It hasnt thrown up any codes so I don't know what the dealer will actually do. Its not like i can duplicate these issues on command.

Edit: Also I want to say thank you Tcoat for always trying to help everyone on this site. Your always the first to reply and try to help everyone. We are lucky to have you.

Thanks. Not everybody see things that way though.


Have you had the RPM TSB done? It is a simple reflash of the ECU. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1386706237

I use OFT stock tune on 93 octane.

Hmmmm. Did you have your heater on?

well the heat was on but not the compressor.

The compressor comes on with the heater on these cars if set to windshield. It dries the air for defrost.

The defroster was not on. I am going to sport mode it on the way home and see if it keeps doing it.

OK I am baffled and have run out of suggestions.

That's the point though. The ECU gets the signal just fine... It just refuses to do anything with it.

Everything is working fine - All the switches and relays work, but the circuit that grounds via ECM pin 26 is closed before all the other circuits close. That is all...

Theoretically, you shouldn't be able to turn the key fast enough to "beat" the relays, unless something is sticky or the initial voltage just isn't quite there... But you can simulate the condition in an MT car by leaving the clutch out... Hold the key to start, then press the clutch. You just completed the circuit, but nothing happens, because the ECU won't complete the ground for pin 26... Because reasons... And some internal start logic that I'm not privy to...

BUT, if you do the same thing in the car on the right side of the diagram, the car starts as soon as the clutch hits the switch. The only difference between these two is that one relay circuit terminates at a plain old ground, and the other disappears into a "logic box."

Here are two starter circuits to illustrate my point. FRS, and an older car.

......and an even older starter circuit .....:D


humfrz

Ok the car is still starting on the first try for the 2nd day. As far as the car feeling like it might stall when coming to a stop, it was doing it yesterday on the drive home. This morning everything was fine though. I did need to add gas this morning so i am wondering if the last tank of gas could have caused the issue of stuttering when stopping. I usually always put Chevron 93 in my car but will use shell 93 also. Last fill up was shell. Think it could have made a difference? Gonna keep running the car in sport mode to see if it does it again.

I am an IT tech by trade and really hate when I cant duplicate something. It drives me nutz!