Musings on Wording
 

A decade or three ago, when someone wanted to append an additional affirmative clause or descriptor to a thought, the word that most folks used was "too," as in, "Me, too," "I'd like to go, too," or "we have a dog, three cats, and a three-legged gopher, too."

A while ago, folks started using "as well" in place of "too." That always grated on me; to me, it came off sounding pretentious and affected. Years went by, more and more people adopted it, and now I hardly ever hear anyone use "too;" everyone uses "as well" now. I even find myself using it as well (CRAP!).

What happened to "too?" Why use two words when one "too" can be used?
Perhaps to convey increased smartment?

i would say that is probably the right reason

for instance

"have a good rest of the day"

"you as well"

what happened to just saying, "you too"... it's much quicker and easier to say

smart asses

In our current meme-tastic world, "Me too"/"Me as well" has devolved into "same." Simpler and easier. Who said us millennials aren't good for anything? :bellyroll:

Certainly not I. I've sired several of'em, and love'em dearly... as well.

or we can sound even more pretentious and say "likewise"

"nice car"

"likewise"

Samesies.

No U

I tend to use the shortest words possible, but if I'm writing for something (academic, whitepaper, article, etc) I will use all forms of a saying to avoid sounding repetative.

One of my biggest pet peeve is using complex words in everyday conversation. It just bugs the hell out of me because I do feel people do it to show off.

Like this post
Why the hell can't you just say "Not me. My kids are millenials and I love em".

This isnt a novel so why be so formal about it?

because he is a scholar

Why say "even" and "as well" (or "too") in a sentence? That doesn't make sense, and is a waste of words. A lot of people would say "as well" on that last sentence for no good reason (this one, too...)

I think I use "also" or "too" most often.

I'd wager that a lot of people just don't know which to/two/too is the right one, so they use different words.

C

Why does using more descriptive or complex words make it showing off? That is the way some people talk. I use complex words all he time and am not showing off or being pretentious it is just simply the words I use. Much of the use of words can be regional and just because somebody says "sired" and it may not seem normal to you does not make it abnormal to others. You would probably be appalled at how I speak if you think using such words is showing off. Some of it slips through here even when I generally ignore all rules of grammar since I usually am rushing what I write.
As far as the use of "too" goes I don't pay attention enough to what I say to tell you if I ever say "as well" but I do not believe that I do.

That is true. I think it's a pet peeve because I grew up in AP type classes full of people who thought they were smarter then everyone else. They would use vocabulary (among other things) to make themselves feel superior so my past history has me leaning that way. I don't automatically dislike someone who talks that way but my gut reaction is that it is offputting.

I do have issues when people TRY to use such words and obviously have no clue as to what they mean or the context in which they should be used.

Like...

fitment?

Smartment:bonk::bonk:

Because wry, semi-ironic humor? That was my intention when I wrote the statement that, unintentionally, got under your skin.

Conventions of speech and writing, of course, change with time, context, and intent. When I was in HS, undergrad, and graduate school, I hated to write papers. I mean, HATED to write papers. I enjoyed the learning part, but once I had researched and learned the material, I viewed the onerous task of regurgitating it and assembling it into formal writing a complete waste of time. Fortunately, I had excellent professors (especially Dr. Hughes in grad school.. thanks, Doc!) and I've always had a voracious love of reading, so I learned to write and developed at least a borderline serviceable vocabulary in the process.

Now, I love to write, because I write when I feel like it, about things I care about, or just for the sheer pleasure of sharing stupid thoughts and musings. The purpose of vocabulary is to convey thoughts and impressions in an increasingly specific and accurate manner. There are plenty of things that can be expressed monosyllabically, and I'm not adverse to doing so. When a concept requires more than "Bro, chill rims!" then it's nice to have some backup phraseology.

I get what you're saying; nothing drives me crazier than pretentiousness. On the other hand, I absolutely LOVE unintentional malapropisms. I had two borderline illiterate colleagues at one of my previous places of employment, and they were incredibly hillarious without realizing it. One one occasion, one of them (who viewed himself as a great sage and consummate educator, and he was far and I mean FAR from being either) introduced a guest artist that he revered (but was not equally respected by the rest of the faculty) who had offered to wave his honorarium as appearing "Persona non grata." I had to bite the inside of my lip until blood flowed to keep from laughing hysterically. I was not alone. He actually thanked the audience for a "tremendous ovulation" on another occasion.. and he wasn't kidding. Sooo... sometimes it's fun to let people be pretentious.

Yes, I could have written "I dig millenials; I raised three of'em." What I wrote better conveyed, or so I thought, the sort of wise-guy, playful attitude that I was feeling when I started the thread. Sorry if it came across differently. You mentioned your pet peeve is having to listen to folks using complex words in everyday conversation. I'll mention mine; it's using profanity in place of wit or vocabulary or just to fill up space. You wrote "why the hell" etc... when you could have conveyed exactly the same thought without "the hell." Why the hell did you feel the need to do that, as well? ;)

Just havin' fun.

Best,

Barry

Albert Einstein would write papers that would be mostly unintelligible to people who weren't PhD's, and is often critiqued on that. Check it if you haven't tried reading one. To me it made me upset because of (lack of better drunken word) the haughtiness of his use of language, was not understandable even though I've been versed in honors English classes and attended college.

And if you want an amusing look on wording, take a look at how men used to say "no homo" after complimenting another guy. Ex: "You look good in your facebook pic, no homo." Now everyone says "hey those jeans look good, love you, full homo". Funny how things change.

Sorry, I've been perusing Wodehouse.

LOL We have noticed!

Is that the royal "we"?

Nope. Just the plural.

No musings then??

Musing? That would be madness!
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek0SgwWmF9w"]Muse - Madness - YouTube[/ame]

Why you should say as well

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/16/16d590...4d00f0c877.jpg

So far, that's the best reason I've seen by a long shot. It also illustrates my point about the benefits of using precise vocabulary.

And, FWIW, none of this has anything to do with a desire to "seem" or "feel" anything, referencing the ban thread. I was, and still am, geniunely curious about the changes in speech idioms as the years roll by, as evidenced by the switch from "too" to "as well" in relatively recent history. I wasn't aware that such curiousity was purely the providence of smart people. If so, then I guess that makes me smart. Who knew? I sure wasn't aware of it...

"Hey, gimme a tool" or "could you please hand me that 13mm flare nut wrench?"... I'm pretty sure which statement most of us would rather make (or hear) when working on our cars. Why not use colorful, precise language in other parts of our lives?

In any case, a very Happy New Year to all.

Best wishes,

Barry

ROFL.. Yeah, I know... I've gotta get some Imodium for my fingers.

I am often asked when I am paying for my coffee at a favourite coffee shop "How was everything?". I understand it is not meant to be taken literally; I am being asked how was my coffee. I have often considered going into a tirade of questions trying to determine what they mean by their question.

Me: "Was" past tense. "Everything" encompasses.... well everything. Are you referring to my early childhood, the state of the universe, the history of Poland?
Coffee shop staff: Huh?

Context solves that. They only care about your coffee experiance so they are asking how was everything about your visit.

That will be the basis for a longer response to @MuseChaser on tuesday. I only post from my phone but this will be much too long so need to wait til I'm back to work on a computer.

I disagree. If they were interested in my coffee experience they would have asked "How was your coffee?". No, all the staff ask the same poorly worded question. It is a case of the the literal question not meaning what they are really enquiring about. *shakes fist at sky*

LOL.. yeah..

Another new favorite in the restaurant business seems to be having servers ask "How is it tasting?" I know.. the verb "taste" can be a little ambiguous, but food, at least as I'm used to thinking of it, "has a taste," but the person eating the food "tastes" the food. Asking me "how is it tasting" always makes me wonder how the food thinks I taste. OK.. yeah.. we do say, "Hey, this rotten otter tastes great," but rarely do we say "this platter of festering boils is tasting fantastic."

I'd rather be asked, "Are you enjoying the food?" or "Is the food prepared to your liking?" or "Does everything you ordered taste tantalizing?" or whatever. "How is it tasting?" just sounds weird. Again.. I'm not sure why it hits me that way.

I am annoyed by "How are we?"

"I'm fine. You'll have to figure out the rest for yourself."

But it's more than cofee. Was the place dirty? Did you get bad service? Maybe the barthroom was out of paper towels. They could say "how was you visit?" But honestly the context of their relationship with you should answer what "everything" entails.

I like that.


My sort of favourite (but not really) is when I am asked "And what was your name?" to which I reply "It still is...."

Damn. Now I can add that to my list.

I just feel sorry for the poor service staff working for a minimum wage, most likely the only job they have and they need to feed a string of children back home... so their head is not in the job or they are not aware of the moment. They want to do their shift, get home and then they get an "awkward" customer who starts his/her musings just because he/she can as he/she is from the right side of town, drives a nice car and works in job most likely they enjoy and just loving life... yes I have watched too much Judge Judy over the Xmas break!

As I mentioned "I have often considered going into a tirade of......" I appreciate they do not want to get into a discourse with a stupid customer who has too much time on his hands.

I get the gist of your post but.......my view of the world says that language is supposed to convey meaning. The base units of language are words. For us to be able to convey meaning we have to agree on what the words symbolise/mean. When I say "look at the dog" you immediately think the symbol for generic dog. When you look across the street towards what I am pointing at when I say "dog" you don't know what kind of dog you will see but you know a dog when you see one regardless of whether it is a corgi, alsatian or dachshund. You do not expect to see a cat because I hadn't said so.

I am suggesting that people whose use sloppy English cannot accurately convey what it is they are thinking because they don't have the tools to do so. I can't but help listening to other people's conversation. It amazes me sometimes how often someone will use "you know" in their talk. Sure, it makes them sound like they are talking even though there is no meaning.

My wife, whose first language is not English, is amazed at the vagaries of the English language. I pity anyone trying to learn English.
In the example above if my wife is asked "What was your name?" she would answer with her maiden name. I mean, why wouldn't she?

I work part time in a bottle shop. I am often asked for a bottle of Champagne when what the customer is asking is for a bottle of sparkling. I am not being pedantic; there is a difference even though the customer may not be aware of it.

Umm... ok, rant over.

Don Watson was the speech writer to one of Australia's Prime Ministers. He doesn't orate all that well but he is worth listening to. I am still looking for part 2.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz6QuKbEAsc"]Bendable Learnings: Don Watson on the wisdom of modern management (p1) - YouTube[/ame]

We have "init" that I think is the equivalent to "you know".. I thought "init" was a new phenomenon however watched an old black and white UK movie filmed around the time of the last WW and heard "init"..

That's interesting. I was reading your post and thought wait a sec... that sounds like an English (country not language) expression which surprised me because I assume that people in this forum are from the US by default. I check your location, lo and behold you are in the UK.

Yeah, I've heard the init in old UK TV series. F**k, I hope I don't remember this post tomorrow otherwise I might start saying init compulsively.