Heavy City Drivers, please opine...
 

Hi FRS/86/BRZ owners,


For those who have been driving your FRS/86/BRZ mainly in the heavy-traffic cities, I would like to have your comments/experience sharing how well/tolerable you can live with your car?


I raised this topic because I am making my mind about buying a BRZ (Manual Trans) but I am living in a city that has super heavy traffic.


I used to have 04 WRX M/T that I had driven for 7 years mainly in the city with heavy traffic before changing to IS250 A/T. I don't have much trouble driving M/T in the traffic because I am physically fit (I am a regular runner and weight train regulary).


I just want a lightweight, fun-to-drive, rear wheel drive sport car that can turn the boring daily commute into a sprightly one. I am just not sure if my choice is right.


Thank you in advance for your kind comment and valuable experience sharing.

Bah, marshmallows are stiffer than the stock clutch. It's a wonderful city car. Try it!

If you were fine with the WRX I can't imagine the 86 is significantly different.

Regularly commute in California SF/LA traffic, no regrets.

I regularly try not to punch a hole thru the firewall with my left foot in heavy city traffic @ about 5km/h on the highway.

BTW I'm a fat ass and not considered physically fit (but actually am quite fit once I cross the southern border).

In the Philippines we called that "pesonality."

I've found my FR-S MT an easy car to drive in traffic.

If you "like" to shift ...... I suggest you get the MT, if not ..... get the AT .....;)


humfrz

The stock clutch was way softer then my STi, so that shouldnt be an issue. But just test drive one. I personally dont like the feel and high catch point (can be fixed with adjustment and maybe removing the clutch assist spring). Did my 5 hour/150 mile round trip commute in MT for years til I got the AT FRS. Dont regret it one bit even now that my commute is much shorter.

But I'm also super picky of driving position and feel type stuff so ymmv

Thank you all for your kind comments.

One thing that hesitates me is the driving around with the widely criticized "Torque Dip" in the heavy traffic. Is it tiresome to constantly work the engine and gearshift to get around that torupe dip in order to to cut/swerve through the traffic?

As for the clutch peddle effort, I don't have any problem after my estended test drives in BRZ many times. In contrast, I quite enjoyed my left foot that it had some involement in the driving.

What about NVH in the long run?

Please see above. Sorry for any confusion...

Odds are even if you never rev past 3.5k rpm you will have more power and maneuverability than 90% of the other vehicles on the road.

The extra bit up top is just for fun.

I drive my BRZ in Chicago all the time. No problems at all. Easiest car to park too. You can fit it anywhere.

My Jeep is an automatic, while my BRZ is a manual. I actually prefer to drive the BRZ in heavy traffic except uphill. My right ankle starts to cramp in the Jeep because the automatic transmission won't let me coast at a very low speed, so I have to ride the brake.

The only time I don't like driving the BRZ is in stop and go traffic up a long slope. Trying to get across the I-10 bridge over the Mississippi at Baton Rouge was always irritating because it would move too slowly to ever let the clutch all the way out in gear, but I couldn't coast out of gear because I was going uphill. On flat ground or shorter slopes it's not a problem at all.

The "torque dip" is about 98% fiction based upon some numbers on a piece of paper (or screen I guess). Makes a difference if you are trying to knock a hundredth of a second off your 1/4 mile and that is about it. Even if accelerating through the brief range it supposedly exists in it lasts about a 10th of a second.

You'll never get into the dip driving around in town unless you're being adorably frisky (i.e. an ass).

I sold my alfa due to the heavy clutch driving around town. It was very tiring.
The 86 clutch is almost perfect for me.

Just pay no mind to what people call the "torque dip". As @Tcoat mentioned, for average driving, it's nothing more that something that one can see on a piece of graph paper.

As far as cabin noise, unless you have a loud aftermarket exhaust, the cabin is fairly quiet, especially, if you stick a cork in the sound tube.


humfrz

You will miss the comfort creatures and quietness of the IS250...

You won't notice it in traffic. The torque dip comes in between 3500 and 4000 rpm. It's really only noticeable when you wind it out and feel that second kick when it hits 4000 rpm.

On the other hand, these people saying the torque dip is just on paper obviously don't ever push the car hard. It's definitely there. I feel it every time I drive the car. It doesn't really bother me, though.

Don't feel it in CITY driving. Even between it is "there" it is gone in a fraction of a second as you ;pow through the gears. None of this "I can't get up to speed to merge since it takes too long" crap that some spew.

Yes, I keep my comfort creatures in the glove box :lol:(couldn't resist)

But seriously OP, the torque dip is negligible. Heavy traffic, light traffic, the 86 is great.

I'd at least test drive a GTI. If I drove traffic a lot, I'd not get a twin. Just not the best tool for the job.

I removed the clutch helper spring in my FRS many months ago. I've since forgotten the feeling of the lighter pedal with the spring installed. I live in Northern Virginia and drive to DC often. It's not an issue.

The torque dip was a bit annoying during hot summer days when I was still using 91 octane. But once I switch to 93 octane it's fine. You're supposed to use 93 octane anyway.

As for the noise, there is a sound tube in the wheel well that you can plug very easily to make it quieter.

Overall it's a great city car for zipping in and out of traffic. Very agile, quick shifter, and an engine that's eager to rev.

Since I don't like driving MT in stop-n-go traffic every day, my FR-S is AT. It is auto when needed and manual when I want. You don't even need to switch to manual to take control. The paddles are always available and functional in both AT and MT modes. In the manual mode you can use both paddle or sequential shifter. If you decide to paddle shift without switching to manual mode, the transmission waits until you release the throttle to go back to AT mode by itself. It takes a little time to learn using this AT/MT transmission efficiently but it is fun. I can't wait leaving home in the morning and work in the evening just to drive my FR-S.

Plus, the final gear is longer ratio than MT that is quieter when cruising on the highway, better mpg, and also higher top speed.

Since I don't like driving MT in stop-n-go traffic every day, my FR-S is AT. It is auto when needed and manual when I want. You don't even need to switch to manual to take control. The paddles are always available and functional in both AT and MT modes. In the manual mode you can use both paddle or sequential shifter. If you decide to paddle shift without switching to manual mode, the transmission waits until you release the throttle to go back to AT mode by itself. It takes a little time to learn using this AT/MT transmission efficiently but it is fun. I can't wait leaving home in the morning and work in the evening just to drive my FR-S.

Plus, the final gear is longer ratio than MT that is quieter when cruising on the highway, better mpg, and also higher top speed.

Basically, I drive 1 hour traffic to work and 1 hour traffic back home almost everyday.
It is a manual, and I love driving it. If you like this car enough, you wouldn't care something like this.

I think its a brilliant city car that's great for a bit of driving fun once you get it out to open roads. Light, good brakes, more power than you need and reasonable fuel economy. My biggest worry is not being seen, but that maybe a Chicago thing... Probably not.

Can't comment about the transmission, as I have an AT. However I drive in moderate traffic (SoCal). The ride is comfortable. If you are fit and enjoy the car then I think you'll enjoy it.

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Mine isn't a manual, but I have a much less forgiving manual car that I drive in any traffic, and it bothers me none. The manual in the 86 is way more compliant and user-friendly, so since you're already used to putting your left leg to work, you'll be fine. Just get one and enjoy it.

Only autos I have driven have been dealer courtesy cars, so I can't really judge compared to an auto, though I found heavy stop/go traffic sleep inducing in an auto. Brake off.... wait.... brake on.... snooze.... brake off.... wait.... brake on... snooze.

Minimum crawling speed is about 4mph but if on a hill it will require you to milk the throttle 1mm on and off and be extra smooth or it will lurch (no auto sponge-iness). You can get so slow the rev pick up from the AC coming on actually accelerates the car to 5mph. Below that you'll either need to keep pressure on the clutch to not bog down or coast to a stop, wait for a 10 yard gap and resume. Even if you sit on the clutch constantly you're clutch will last 60k at least and isn't that expensive to replace.

The torque dip is, as said, 'mostly' in people's heads. The only reason I notice it is there is a definite second kick around 4500, which is more positive than the virtual un-noticable pause in acceleration. So I actually like it. Driving in genuine slow traffic amongst normal cars you don't need the power from high RPM, the car has enough torque below 3k to out pull 90% of cars on the road.

One thing I have noticed about this car in heavy stop/go traffic is that the cabin air intake is susceptible to sucking up someone else's exhaust fumes. Stay back from diesels and smoking exhausts. If you smell exhaust, hit the recirc on the AC and open a window.

Also, be aware the car is low. You will find it hides in car parks when you come out from doing the shopping and it's hiding behind other cars and doesn't reveal itself till you get up close. Remember this as it applies on the road too. You tend to hide behind other vehicles and people have a tendency to pull out in front of you as they don't see you until much later. If there is an SUV blocking 'your' view of a junction expect a car coming out of that junction can't see you either.

Reminds me of back-in-the-day ....... (I know :rolleyes:) when people would put 3 deuces on a car (picture attached for the younger folks) and most would use a progressive linkage (center carburetor would open first - all 3 open at more throttle), however some would hook them up in series (all 3 open at once).

When the series folks would be asked why not progressive ...... they would reply, oh, I just can't wait for the end two carbs to open up....... MORE POWER!

(never mind that on most street setups - the engine couldn't use most of the extra gas, at lower rpms ..... :iono:)


humfrz

buy an automatic..much better..not sure why they made one with three pedals...we don't have 3 legs

I'd get the auto, far better in city traffic and you only lose a small amount against the manual on open roads.

Unless you plan to track it, of course.

:slap: .......that's for ..... just because ...... :D


humfrz

I'd suggest test driving both the MT and AT in the "heavy traffic" condition in your area, then go with your gut feel.

Also it doesn't need to be black and white - I've driven the AT exclusively in manual mode, albeit with the regular shifter and not paddle shifters, and have never regretted it one bit. Having to drive through a snow storm recently where I was bumper to bumper for 1.5 hours to go 6km reaffirms my decision to go semi-AT.

I drive highway and city often in traffic. My car is a M/T and my left knee is kind of screwed up from when I sprained it a few years ago.

It's fine in traffic. I even did the assist spring delete that makes the clutch stiffer. Sometimes I even look forward to traffic when I'm bored driving home because then I get to listen to my engine and exhaust :D

I also did a 900+ mile round trip 3 day road trip and only I drove (my wife doesn't drive M/T) and I was fine there too. over 10 hours on the first day of the trip.

i believe shifting with the gear lever in an automatic is blasphemy...not even sure why they put a shift boot on the automatic pretending to be a manual

I don't see how people think the torque dip is imaginary.. my car pulls hard until 3500 rpm then just falls completely flat until 5500 and pulls again. It's so bad..

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Easy if you start in 2nd gear. You don't need too much throttle to get rolling and won't bog the engine because the gearing is so short. That makes it far more tolerable in traffic. Unless you need to jump into a gap. Then yes, getting stuck in a higher gear under 3K makes it very, very difficult to sneak into openings. You must always be conscious of your surroundings and be ready to grab a lower gear.

It also helps to learn how to rev match into 1st under 20 mph. You do not want to get stuck in 2nd then have to floor it. Nothing. Happens. For. A. Long. Long. Time.

Otherwise, I find the seats to be excellent, the brakes are easy to modulate, and the sightlines are mostly good so it is easy to move between lanes.

I think you are trolling but you might like this: clutchless sequential shifter for modern days of racing. Do you see a boot there?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XviGi4u0eTA"]MTI Racing Six Shooter Sequential Transmission - YouTube[/ame]

nope i can't even see the driver's feet...or were you referring to the trunk?