Drive 'tests' the 2017 BRZ
 

Am I alone when I say that I am sick and tired of 'professionals' reviewing a twin only to conclude that it has a 'serious' lack of power.
The article even concludes that buying a Miata is a better idea (it is maybe lighter but it has 50hp less) or a Camaro or Mustang.
He also has serious problems with grip. Wait, what? Testing a RWD car on summer tires in NY in December in the snow and wet and you slip?

ARTICLE HERE

This guy really doesn't get it.

hack journalists. :paddle:

that these get compared with cameros, even the new ones...ill never understand. i TRIED to like them. the 1LE is amazing on paper.

but go sit in the thing and it feels like a bathtub. and i'm like 6 foot 2!

Any credibility he had left was gone when I read this statement. You want more power, but you can't even handle 200...

Well, most reviewers are not enthusiasts about light sport vehicles. They think v8 and 1/4 mile. 'nough said.


I tried the '17 BRZ. I love interior so much! And the new FRS hippopotamus!


The new seats are so awesome! I want em I want em I want em!

Also steering wheel reminds me of G35. More luxury in sport. All that is missing is stiffer suspension. I always love super stiff Toyota's. Makes me feel grounded.

Quickness-wise meh.

When I was asked in the past, 'but can it beat a Corvette?,' Idc. It's a cute car and really personal. I get so happy when I drive other people's twin. Those with faster cars seem to get tired of them quick.

I should start reviewing cars on YouTube.

so true. L2D son :burnrubber:

that reviewer is a dumb ass jigga

So you test a car in wet, snowy conditions and call it underpowered? Assholes.

WHO IS IT FOR? Performance drivers on a budget

I find that annoying. Why can't people with money enjoy cars like this?

I didn't buy the twin cause I was on a budget. I bought it because I love it!

I feel like everyone who hates on these cars for not having enough power needs to be sent to a proper autocross in a brand new Corvette.

When they get beat by a good driver in a 90hp civic, ask them if they still need more power.

I like my FA20 the way it is. Doesn't need a turbo. All it needed was the sound tube plug and some 93 octane fuel and it's good to go. I love free revving naturally aspirated engines like this.

Then I put on a N1 exhaust so I could hear that lovely boxer growl. I know everybody buys this car for the handling and so did I, but I think I'm one of the few that actually likes the engine too.

I wouldn't choose a Camaro V6 over it because the Camaro handles like shit and drives like a boat. The Camaro is only faster in a straight line, I think the article is dead wrong. The article also seems to be written by a poor journalist. the article is too short, not backed by numbers and it is nothing more than his opinion. It's not very well written and is more about flash (it needs more power damn it- really?) than substance.

Same here. I did not buy buy it because I am a 'performance driver' (whatever that is) nor am I on a budget. I am all over the place when it comes to my car hobby. I came from a Lexus LX and the Lexus RC350 was on my short list too, which is a coupe costing more then double the price of the BRZ. But I could not get over the spindle grill and the fussy design in general and the overall softness and numb feeling. Even the Jaguar F type was on my radar but I couldn't justify the money (maintenance, issues etc..) Camaro's, Mustangs, Challengers or anything else domestic was never an option.

I am old (not as old as @Tcoat lol) I do not finance. The bargain BRZ hits the spot. It captures the essence af driving and the reason I fell in love (in the eighties) with cars.
I do not 'need' more power but I like playing with my toys. So I modify and change it to my liking. When I am driving I mind my own business and don't drive like an idiot comparing my car with whatever is out there.
And yes, I know that I am not the average target group for which this car is designed but this article hits a nerve.

I did not buy it for "performance" driving either. For how I get to drive 98% of the time it may as well be a Camry. I bought it as an inexpensive throw away that I can clock mega miles on and then just get a new one in 5 years. It is damn near the perfect vehicle for my needs and if I had sat down and wrote a wish list of what I wanted in a car it would have checked every single box. Not one of those other vehicles in the review would have checked near as many of my boxes. Not even close.

I think he gets it. That is the biggest gripe across the board with this vehicle in general.

False. At least the 6th generation. A base SS pulled .98G on the same skidpad a BRZ did .89G on. The six doesn't get the same suspension goodies, but they still do better than a twin. You'd never be able to get a true apples to apples comparison due to engine differences and tire differences etc etc, but the new 6th generation camaro has been touted as a true drivers car in every sense of the meaning.

Doesn't matter what it had there would be a group griping about it though. Come out with a 220hp SC it "should" of had a 250 TC. Has a 250 TC it "should" have had a 300 Twin Scroll TC and so on.
Now that being said it is indeed the biggest gripe and obviously I am not privy to the reasons I am amazed that they have not come out with a TRD/STi factory approved option. Scion did it for the bloody tC for crying out loud. There would still be people complaining but there would be fewer of them for sure. No doubt there would also be more cars in the wreckers for us to get parts off of since even he had issues at stock power.

where did this idea come from that a good skidpad encompasses all aspects of handling?

Having driven one they are indeed sweet. Not exactly what I was after but damned close. They keep going in the direction they are and it could turn into damn near the perfect low(er) budget driver's car. The new Mustangs are also much better then they were but not quite as far along as the Camaros.

It doesn't, but you will never be able to get a true apples to apples comparison. It was a baseline, numerical based thing to show a portion of what I was saying. The new Camaro is definitely a great handling car, some sort of numbers / statistics help prove that. That was all I was doing and I KNEW somebody would say something like that.


I also love how you ignored the rest of my post and focused strictly on the skidpad numbers portion of it.

The SS also pulled that on 245/275 Goodyear F1 Asymmetric F3s, which are not at all comparable to our POS low traction OEM tires. Our tires were chosen for tail-happy fun times, not sideways traction. I would be curious to know what our cars would pull with the Camaro's Goodyears in our OEM size.

You are comparing a SS Camaro with magnetic ride control and a price tag of $47k To a baseline BRZ that can be purchased for $25k.

How about you compare the baseline Camaro with the 4 cylinder engine, lacking all the traction control features with the BRZ, then at least it is a fair price comparison.

JFC what part of not apples to apples in two different posts is not understood.


Anyways, according to tirerack on 235/40/18 starspecs .96


http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ransformation/

You brought up the skid pad comparison; I just pointed out why it wasn't necessarily a valid comparison.


Also, thanks for the article. I remembered reading it somewhere a while ago, but not where it came from. .96 isn't too bad at all.

This is not comparison between the twins and the new Camaro.


Guybo said new Camaros don't handle well. I was just pointing out that is a VERY common misconception. I dropped one comparison for proof of my statement and everyone comes crawling out of the internet to defend the poor little twins, lol.


According to motor trend a base model four cylinder Camaro does the skidpad in .89 on the skidpad with worse tires than our stock ones and a similar purchase price. Let alone being faster overall. They also state lack of power and other engine options as a reason not to buy, lol.

yeah lol and everytime there's a word about camaros I see you interveen saying the same s**t over and over again with your stupid skidpad comparison...

Gush just go and get one for god's sake and enjoy ;)

I've already had a Camaro. :iono:


I honestly think I've only been involved in two discussions about these cars, it just doesn't make sense when people blindly believe the car can't handle and isn't a drivers car....and then motor trend claims it to be best drivers car of the year, lol. Not that motor trend is the end all be all authority by any means, but they at least put out hard data and good reviews.

Probably nothing since it would be stuck to the ground and not be able to move!

ive read the M3 comparos. I'm aware it's a good chassis. On an 86 forum, you're comparing a claymore to a sabre wrt driving feel (the journalist in question here made the comparison) Alpha platform still feels pretty damn big. skidpads are irrelevant in that context.

In a skidpad comparo between a Camaro and a Twin, the numbers are meaningless, as the test equipment is unable to quantify grin factor.

Winner - Twin.

The author's ineptness is clearly demonstrated with his 'Hauling People' rating of a 3 out of 5, which renders suspect or nonsense every other score he assigned. Babies, double amputees, and the chore of stuffing the muthafucka's back there?

not by people that actually own them, only by clueless poseurs who don't get them. People that would whine that they were too expensive if they had the FA20dit and were $35k.

My wife has a gen 5 camaro RS. It handles like shit. I don't know about the gen 6 camaros. They are boats too though- just not quite as boaty as the previous gen. The view sucks and they are physically large and weigh 500 lbs more than an FRS. I don't care about the numbers, not my cup of tea.

The weight difference is actually even more than that. Edmunds weighed a 2016 Camaro V6 at 3461 lbs. That's 703 lbs heavier than a Twin. :eyebulge:

Also completely agree about feel vs. numbers. My wife's GTI is the same way. It puts up decent skidpad and slalom numbers in testing, but I've tracked it a few times and it definitely wallows and rolls around when pushed hard (especially with stickier tires). It may put up decent numbers, but the feel from the driver's seat is completely different.

It wouldn't surprise me if the new Camaro was similar. Good numbers (and lap times) but can't hide its weight behind the wheel. Still look like fun cars though, would love to drive one to see for myself.

You don't know. But.... you KNOW. Got it. :thumbup:

Lol.

Driving the BRZ in winter conditions with summer tires hides all the great handling characteristics for this car.
His conclusions makes as much sense as reviewing the BRZ with winter tires in the summer and complaining about the handling.

I'm not so sure.


5th gen? Sure.


But my buddy just bought a 6th gen and it didn't feel that much bigger than a twin sitting in it. The center console isn't much bigger than the little canoe we have between our seats.

Wrong, lol.


I'd say at least a quarter of all the threads on this board eventually discuss it.

I'd say a large amount of people, including owners, want more power in the platform. Some of the most popular, and long term threads on this forum are centered around building horsepower.


From what I have seen, it is kind of a toss up between how to get more horsepower and wide wheels / tires as the two most discussed topics on this forum in general.

9 inch longer wheelbase
600lbs
4inch higher beltline

someone please explain to me what this monstrosity is:

http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/imag...ry-95552_1.jpg

there will always be some people that want more power. Hell you can find 500 hp Toyota Yaris out there.

There is a huge difference between that and a total loser writing an article whining about how the car needs a turbo while at the same time be so bad a driver he manages to spin the car in a parking lot. The writer is a total buffoon. Besides there is no way they can do as good a job covering all the bases in the aftermarket, and if you really look around they did a ton of work making sure the aftermarket would be supplying all sorts of different options for people who do want more power.

And I don't think a forum is the ideal place to judge if a car needs more power. It is usually populated by car enthusiasts and modding is always high on the agenda. And part of modding is trying to add more power. But I still believe that a 86 doesn't need it. It is a light weight 2 door with 200 hp. 0-60 in what, 6 or so seconds. A top speed of over 200 km/h. When I was young, these figures were almost supercar level. The Golf GTI 16v was every boy's dream and put out 139hp. A Lotus Esprit Turbo? 210hp. A Audi Quattro Coupe: 197hp. Even the legendary BMW M3: just 210hp. And those cars where serious machines.
We live in an era where people get an abundance in horse power. A Camry v6 has 268hp. But that doesn't make it a enthusiast machine or 'drivers' car. It is the whole package, not just the numbers. And the same goes with motorcycles, big (and heavy) is usually the opposite of fun. It numbs everything down. Compensating with power does not solve that problem.