Rocker Arm Failure
 

I currently at 42K miles have a rocker arm that was pushed through the valve cover. Toyota is attempting to deny my P/T warranty for this for "over rev" because freeze frame data shows at some point i was at 7300 RPM at 35 mph.

Regardless of that i wanted to see if anyone else has had this failure.

Who has had a rocker arm failure ?
What mods did you have ?
Did Toyota/Subaru cover under warranty ?

7300RPM, how is that over rev? Thats below the cutoff, so normal rev. Dont let them deny it for that, it is not true at all, there are many others (including myself) who get to 7300 on every gear, lap after lap after lap :)

Im trying to fight them on it but they are stone walling. I will be contacting an attorney and i bought a beater vehicle to allow me time to fight.

You are not alone (some are FI though)


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2646846
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2399777
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19672
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1184772

Guess im still trying to figure out how you can be in 7300 at 35
What gear? Were you about to shift out?

1st gear. If you are launching from a dead spot for maximum acceleration, you would want to shift at the redline (7400) on every gear, that includes first gear.

Thats the top of first in a manual car. So yeah, its shifting time haha.

Have you seen a print out of this "data? I am not sure that it was ever firmly established that they could even collect such information. If you have seen it then have you spoken directly to Toyota or just with the dealer? Just wondering if they are trying to pull a fast one. As previously said 7,300 is not an over rev anyway.

I have dealt with the dealer and Toyota corporate. They both advised me the District Toyota Parts and Service manager made the final denial to deny it and both refused to give me his contact info. I tracked him down and left him a message.

I do have a copy of the freeze frame, it was pulled when a code for a misfire popped up. The problem with that, is the freeze frame data has evidence that it was not pulled at the time of failure. The ambient temp reading is different from what it was the day of failure. Also the coolant/oil temps were also different than what it wouldve been as when the freeze frame was pulled coolant/oil was around 120 degrees, when i had been driving for 45 minutes when this failure occurred so everything would be over 200+. Also i had been driving that morning for a while, but the freeze frame data for that rev was 66 seconds after start up of the vehicle. So Toyota cannot prove that the freeze fram they are using to deny my claim occurred when the failure occurred but i have plenty of evidence to prove it wasnt from the same time and cannot be used. Also the fact that 7300 rpms is under the factory set rev limiter is one of my points as well.

Thanks! Does sound shady as hell.

Indeed it does...

All those threads listed have been on MY13, I wonder if there are any MY14+ that have recorded this issue. Guess its good I haven't seen any pop up yet >_>

I have seen one 14 and one 15 that had the issue. One (don't remember which or what thread) was FI and the other was a massive over rev. The guy with the over rev was positive that he didn't cause it but said he had a miss shift from 5th to second so there is little doubt that it was the direct cause. Actually if I remember right that thread may have got deleted because the guy was going to take them to court. Don't remember any follow up if there was one.

They are completely ignoring my requests to speak to the person that denied it.

Ive reported Toyota to the BBB and the VA AG Bearau of consumer protection.

Edit.

EDR data is saved and written over every 30 seconds. How they recorded data longer than that I don't know unless the EDR records longer than 30 seconds.

While it certainly sounds from all the other info you have you have a solid case, I wouldn't put a lot of hope in the ambient temp difference. If it's the same sensor used to display it on the dash, it's pretty well guaranteed not to match what the official temperature is. Those are read in two completely different ways, and environmental conditions where the car is located can cause wide swings from "recorded official temperature".

I honestly suggest this be a case where you find a lawyer in addition to what you've done (just talking to one shouldn't cost you anything). Toyota is stonewalling you and not providing you service, despite evidence proving (that they themselves provided) you did nothing wrong to void the warranty. If the consumer protection bureau is unable to get Toyota to do anything and advocate for you, you need to seek damages here. You have been wronged.

They advised me that the freeze frame data was pulled with a code P0303 and it just records it when an active code is thrown at the moment its thrown. But at the time of failure, my car did not have a misfire at all and still doesnt. It was idling fine when i pulled over before i realized it was oil. So i know that code wasnt specifically thrown in relation to this failure, but another time and just happened to be the last in the system.

Definitely not relying on it, but when you throw it in with all the other factors it definitely doesnt hurt my case haha.

I am working on finding a good local lawyer that is willing to help.

Also interesting. The dealer attempted to deny my warranty for a completely different reason, with no official Toyota documentation or notation of review with Toyota and then was willing to offer me $4,000 for my car "because the engine is a limited production engine and not available used and my car would need to be auctioned off".....

ill delete it, unquote it lol

Done. You obviously saw my point.

Damn.. now I wanna see!!

LOLOL

Good luck man. I really really hope you're done right...

So do i. This is my 6th Toyota and could potentially be my last right here.

Don't think I've taken mine to 7500. I'll max shift around red just before red I've never been at 7500

I'm lowering my rev limit with OFT tonight... Good luck with getting this fixed!

Guys, with respect to "freeze frame" data:

1. The system records a multitude of vehicle operating parameters every half second.

2. When a qualifying fault is detected, a snapshot is saved. The snapshot includes 2 or 3 preceding (I don't remember exactly) freeze frames, another at the time of the fault, and one more immediately after. The snapshot is read/downloaded by techstream.


I don't think this is the EDR. I have no idea how that works. :/

Oh great. Now I have to spend the rest of my day with J. Geils running through my brain.

Can't you pull the battery and clear the freeze frame data?

Hmmm... dunno.

FREEZE FRAME
...chunka chunka
FREEZE FRAME
...chunka chunka

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHo43B6nu60"]J. Geils Band - Freeze Frame - YouTube[/ame]

I am now sorry I started that!

So in regards to freeze frame.

The tech was talking about this failure and it actually happening on corollas a lot and i actually mentioned to him he could look at my computer and see it never went outside of factory limits because i know how to drive and he flat stated that the computer doesnt save that info as "this isnt GM". The only reason they got this freeze frame data is due to the code P0303 being thrown and this freeze frame snapshot was saved. Which as i stated, that code didnt accompany this failure as i never had a misfire.

Let me help with that...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHo43B6nu60"]J. Geils Band - Freeze Frame - YouTube[/ame]

Yup, my standard universal OBD2 reader pulled the snapshot data the few times I've had the coilpack failure code, never bothered to look at the others, but I remember looking at the one that happened heading up to turn 5 at Laguna Seca, >6k rpm, ~80-something mph, that's when I decided I wasn't going to waste much time attempting a warranty repair on 'em...

I can't recall if my bluetooth dongle could do it too, I know the scanner I have is relatively higher end, compatible with Toyota/GM protocols so that may be why it was able to pull it.

But as above, not really relevant to the rocker arm failure that should be front and center.

Yes, agreed. So far, as stated by the service rep, the implied digital evidence is exculpatory.

The car never had a noticeable misfire that would throw a P0303 code when this failure occurred. I was driving, saw smoke from the front passenger side, thought it was the bucket of a dodge next to me, drove to the next light about 2 miles away with full power, no knocks or ticks and no problems, was by myself and noticed the smoke again. Drove another half mile and pulled over, left the car running and got out and examined. Determined smoke coming from under the hood, popped the hood and saw oil and immediately then shut it off... i wouldve known if there was a misfire lol.

Do you, or anyone else know if these snapshots can be seen with ECUTEK hardware?