The End of Diesel Cars is Near?
 

http://www.carscoops.com/2016/12/par...o-city-to.html

In a bid to cut air pollution, the cities of Paris, Madrid, Athens and Mexico City have agreed to ban diesel-powered vehicles by 2025.

~

What you guys think? I personally don't like diesel cars and agree with this step forward.

Maybe after all this, than we will begin to see gasoline powered cars being banned...

"According to the major of Athens, Giorgos Kaminis, this ban on diesel vehicles is just the first step in totally banning cars from cities"

2025

:clap:

From a logistical standpoint. Diesel is what powers our supply chain. Ships, Trains, and semi-trucks are Diesel powered. These modes of transport are what bring food and supplies to the masses.

You'd have to be nuts to drive in those cities anyway. It's a token effort that will have almost zero environmental benefit in the grand scheme of things.

Cars will eventually move out of major cities due to congestion naturally as public transit and ride sharing improves. The only thing laws like this do is hurt a minority of gear heads (which will move out of the city if the laws affect them), stroke the egos of a few politicos, and drive ad-revenue to clickbait either praising or condemning the measure depending on what internet bubble you live in.

I don't condemn speeding up the process via governmental process, but singling out diesel is a half measure, might as well go all the way you pansies. Levy a congestion tax on all drivers like London does, tax all polluters equally whether you live in a city or not.

But how will you share a ride if there are no cars anymore?

Nobody likes a pedant.

Fair enough, but that's the kind of thing the various levels of government around here would actually say and mean it.

Good example, they have been adding reserved bike lanes downtown under the auspices of them being more safe. Except that the traffic consultants told them that what they were adding wouldn't actually be safe and there have been more accidents in less than a year, including some fatal ones, since the new lanes were added than there were in several years previously.

But that means only the rich can travel because they can pay to pollute.

Next they will ban trucks entirely. Recently I was in China and asked a friend why all the trucks where lined up on the side of the highway. They are banned from entering the city until after 8:00pm to reduce road congestion. They have to be out by 6:00am or they are stuck parked all day in the city.

That's different from the status quo how?

Gone are the days when a $50 jalopy or motorbike can take you across the country, washing dishes at diners to afford gas to the next state.

Is that why half the people on here hate each other? The forum (any forum) is rife with them/us.

Yes.

Just get rid of cows. That's half our problem anyway.

I have spoken to Europeans who claim that diesel soot gets everywhere over there. Supposedly in some areas, you can wipe it off of a railing or a park bench and get black on your thumb. They don't have as strict emissions laws over there that the states has (the reason that VW got in trouble over here first and the reason that many of the European diesels are never brought to the states because they can't pass the EPA cycle). They are also running about 50% diesel ownership as opposed to our single digit rate of ownership or whatever tiny number it is, which is why you don't see this sort of an effect over here.


In reality, these large particles are less harmful than the smaller ones we aren't seeing that come from both gasoline and diesel tailpipes. They're still disgusting though, and they're not exactly good. I could see banning them based on that alone, with an exemption for heavy trucking.


I would think this would eventually extend to all internal combustion. Hopefully with an exemption for things like classics and weekend toys. A city environment is the perfect application for electric vehicles or hybrids with ICE range extenders that don't kick on very often. Even though the source of the electricity typically isn't green itself, at least you don't have a bunch of cars concentrating all of those emissions in the city.

I have been trying to eat my way through them for over half a century and still no end in sight.

Thank you for your service.

But.... you'll no longer have your mom.

I could not resist.
Back on topic, that ban is sillly. But, have you ever been to Mexico City? It's bad pollution wise. So I can see that may work for that city.

Globally no fucking way.

I do. :(

Yet how many guys in LA have removed all their cats?

Can't stand them.....

Good.

Diesel was a scam when they tried to label it "clean" anyways.

Its even worse here in the US where half the f'ing morons with these diesel trucks remove all the emissions equipment and coal filters in order to get a few more HP.

Have you been to a US city? It's not any different even in liberal paradise San Francisco, let alone LA.

Hell, go to your nearby freeway overpass and put your hand on any hard surface like chain link or a street sign, it'll be filthy greasy black like a tailpipe. It was like that even in the little town of ~60k people I lived in for a few years.

Does anyone besides @humfrz remember the late nineteenth century in the golden age of coal?

This is the wrong thread. @guybo, you equated the emissions from one powerplant charging lots of electric vehicles to those from the same number of conventional ones.

Yes, we're still burning fossil fuels but it's easier to manage the emissions of one giant powerplant than those from millions of little ones.

I get the battery thing, though. No easy answers when they all involve disturbing "the natural order."

Batteries will hopefully take a step forward in energy density in the next decade or two. Still ships and trains that long haul will need power. How do you charge while moving across an ocean? Solar tech is not there yet.


Anyway, it will be interesting. There is an Electric semi truck, but it costs $375,000 each. So building a fleet of those will be costly. I hope to see electric cars with a 700-1000 mile range. I would adopt at that point. 200-300 miles is too little of a range for me. I regularly drive that much in my car.

I've taken tests on the concept, pretty well thought out at this point. Wish the 'answer' was more common, stupid sound bytes controlling the political landscape.

People have been saying that for over 100 years...

But I guess ~300 miles in a modern Li-ion car @ 60+ mph is better than the ~100 miles at <20mph speeds 100 years ago.

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qim...t_to_webp=true

I wonder how those 'super capacitors' are coming...

The business I work for makes Battery powered products. Lead acid, is still some of the most cost effective and reliable for certain applications, like off the grid homes.

All our products use primary lithium batteries. Li-ion has far less density in smaller batteries. Like cr2016 coin cells. Anyway, toyota has put over a billion dollars into research, and I am confident that the step up will happen in our lifetime.

Graphine nano tubes could possibly increase the surface area for the anode and cathode to create higher energy density. We will see.

Vanadium flow batteries are really interesting, though huge. So many different types....

I hope to have the technology trickle down to smaller batteries. would be cool to have a cell phone that lasted a month.


Edit: Man I sound like a insufferable know it all. Sorry, it's just that battery tech is a topic that is directly related to my job and I get really excited. I'll work on toning it down.

And if you add the energy density of gasoline to that chart you realize why batteries are not the best long haul solution.

I was reading a National Geographic a year ago and I'd say you should avoid eating cats and cows that might have had too much diclophenac.

It was suggested in 2009, grid parity has been reached if you consider solar power panel advances and more specifically location.

Meh, with my diet and lifestyle a bit of residual anti-inflammatory is the very least of my worries.

I frequent the bars frequently and most nights I try to get a vibe on this contentious issue amongst the crowd.


Personally, I prefer stability. Google search, I'm afraid doesn't show the slight possibility that the soot could theoretically cause global cooling.


On the other hand, nuclear disaster could be the most dangerous variable on this planet.


I'd say it is best to value diversity.

I thought you were taking the path of the vulture, rather than the path of an eagle.


I wouldn't be surprised on a grand scheme of things, we got some bird brains.

Batteries are already at the point where they can meet the needs of a large portion of the driving public. I could commute to work with an electric car without a problem and either rent one a couple times a year for long trips or just have a gas beater that I don't drive that much. Most of the country fits into this category.


I'd love to get a model 3 when it comes out. People are reporting operating costs on the volts, leafs, P85's, etc. that are significantly less than a gas car. That said, the car is valued significantly higher than my 86 and my state is very, very greedy with vehicle taxes. I would be paying more money to buy a car that would save me on fuel but then I would lose those savings and a lot more to personal property taxes every year. Needless to say, I won't be buying a model 3 when it comes out, or any other electric car for that matter. State government has disincentivized me to do so. I can rev out my 86 in very wasteful fashion on the way to work every day and still be saving money so what's the point?

Oh, stop. Good stuff there!

It's ok, the batteries I work with get shot up into space and are expected to work for 15+ years via solar power.

Getting excited about stuff is good.

:cheers:

FWIW, Leonardo, I, too, find the battery talk interesting. Tone it down at your peril...

Barry

This is the reality of the issue, chemical fuels beat the absolute shit out of everything else.

If there was a switch to turn off using non-renewable chemical fuels in all first world countries overnight and it got flipped, life would carry on after a few years of scrambling to cover the gaps. (which is why I'm a fan of Diesel, renewable bio-diesel is very real and very close, the emissions are still tricky, but not as terrible as all the recent scandals will have you believe)

If you flipped the switch for second or third world countries they would be sent back to the pre-industrial era with their only hope of recovery being generosity from the more advanced countries. Gasoline/diesel/ethanol needs to be beaten and that won't happen until you can store, transfer, and use a cleaner energy source as easily as a bottle of liquid fuel.

I think that's why hydrogen gets such a push from Japanese companies, they see their Asian neighbors selling fuel like this:

http://2r1qme42ipg52oaubibqtols.wpen...SM-700x466.jpg


Replacing those bottles with reusable hydrogen cannisters is an easier concept to wrap your head around than hoping there is some mythical battery tech we just haven't figured out yet.

Or we could just embrace globalization and make a conscious effort to put the good of humanity over the profits of a few. *looks at 2016*

:sigh:

My product(s) have been to space too! On a few shuttle missions and to the Mir spacestation. :thumbsup:

Looks like a "gas station" in Hati. My wife went to Hati with a volunteer group, and brought back pics like this.

Exactly, the vast majority of the worlds population gets fed their energy in this way, billions don't have consistent electricity (hell I didn't growing up in the US, thanks Enron).

Batteries have a massive mountain to climb.