Help us choose between two Scions
 

Hello folks,


This is my first post. My son is getting his license and he wants an FR-S for his first car. There are quite a few to choose from in this area. These 2 seem to be his favorites, anyone have any thoughts on which may be better? Both have automatic transmission and the standard features.
1. 2015 Toyota 86 GT Limited Edition (black, 33000 miles) - This apparently was first sold overseas, beacuse Toyota did not sell the 86 in the USA until the 2017 model. My son likes this because it has an Invidia non-stock exhaust (model N1?), which is louder and makes a cool sound. I'm not sure it is even legal here in Florida. It also has a spoiler, black tire rims, and side stripes. The asking price is $19,000. I could not find any info about the special features, if any, of this "Limited Edition".
2. 2015 Scion FR-S (red, 21000 miles) - This one does not have a spoiler, and it has stock rims and exhaust. It seems a bit cleaner and better maintained. However, the Carfax shows one accident ("Vehicle involved in a front end collision involving front impact with another motor vehicle. Front primarily damaged. Vehicle functional." It has substantially lower mileage than the black car and the asking price is lower ($17,500), although this is being sold by a "no price negotiation" dealer.


Any thoughts on which of these is a better buy? Or should we keep looking and try to find something better?
Thanks,
p

I think i totaled my first car three times over before i was finished with it..

you have pics of the "2015 Toyota 86 GT Limited Edition" ?

If this is the one he likes a little better, it might be worth you grabbing the VIN and looking it up--I doubt they're legally allowed to sell an imported GT86. Not sure what kind/brand of dealership this is, but my guess is that it's a 2015 FR-S that has been rebadged, as it's already been modified.

There are plenty of people who modify their cars and take great care of them, but the general consensus is that you typically would like to purchase a stock vehicle.

I read the word "involved in crash" and I became skeptical. Sometimes those vehicles are ok to buy because if it doesn't involve any real damage (i.e. bumper got wrecked but radiator back is fine), but then I read "no price negotiation" which to me says "I fucked up and it cost me this much to fix it so it looks like it's fine and now I want to unload it on someone else"

And the modified import, sounds like an awesome deal but I'd be very thorough with my inspection as sometimes cars with aftermarket modifications are not applied by experienced professionals, which can lead to premature complications (i.e. someone through on incorrect sized wheels and didn't get a proper alignment, which may cause issues later down the line).

Honestly I'd say keep an eye out for a Toyota dealership to offer a used lease car. At least then you'd have a powertrain warranty and it will be clean (usually leased vehicles have monetary penalties for damage to a car)

I'd go for option 2. myself.

Here it is.

I'm wondering if the VIN number is correct, as a search indicates this car was first sold in Florida.

those are frs headlights. that's an frs I think

Option 1 is very likely a rebadged FR-S. Also, I thought it was red, not black.

I suppose someone could have changed the name tags, but why would they do that?

@KR-S 86 - My bad, it is black

Because JDM (not really) yo.

If the car has a U.S. VIN, then it is most definitely a USDM Scion FR-S.

That being said, do you have pictures of the steering wheel by any chance?

s
 

Just to be different, and/or to make it appear to be something other than what it actually is.

Lots of folks have re-badged their Scion FRS as a Toyota, and/or an 86.

Here's the steering wheel

Toyota badge on steering wheel is crooked, and radio says Scion in the center. It is a re-badged FRS. Actually pretty common.

Nissan has something called a "versa note"


10,500 new and gets around 40 MPG.

Shops for fr-s, buys versa note because college life yo

Yep, badge appears to be an overlay.

You also saw that it had a Scion radio installed.

That is a Scion FR-S.

Still, assuming that the car has been in no prior accidents, I would take it over the second choice. Is the dealership marking up the price because of the badging though?

I mean, it would be a better first car. Especially being something a parent is paying for.... it will be trashed. Might as well get something that they won't immediately wreck by trying to be Takumi Fujiwara.

I would have a little more faith in OP. We didn't raise his child, so it's not our job to dictate what he should be driving.

Totally agree, but the child in me wants to live vicariously through him lol. LET ME LIVE!

:lol: I'm not dictating anything, just throwing it out there.

This has been a revealing discussion, I'd never heard of "rebadging" before. The dealer provided a free Carfax on the red car but I don't have anything on the history of the black "Toyota", guess I'll need to buy the Carfax (or is there something better than Carfax?).
Black car pros - custom exhaust, custom rims, spoiler, stripes, possible accident-free history
Black car cons - higher price, higher mileage
Red car pros - lower price, lower mileage, no mods, seems cleaner
Red car cons - stock exhaust, stock rims, no spoiler, less unique

Does the pricing seem reasonable?

Any further thoughts welcome!

padded kneepad, Toyota cowboy hat airbag, (I thought these came with the 86 logo, I thought the Toyota thing was a stick on badge) scion headunit, scion headlamps. No push start (IDK if all the gt86 had pushstart or not) IDK but I think its an FRS. not that it really matters tbh.
what tires/spring are on them? in specific I'd check the modded one and check what springs its riding on.

the stock wheels are actually a solid choice. after market wheels come with a slew of other considerations, like alignment, camber (part of alignment) etc. spoiler is an easy fix for under 300 painted prob. uniqueness is what you make it, a stock car you get to make unique.

Pricing is really a regional bit that I can't really say is reasonable or not. For California where I live you can find a really decent 2015 scion fr-s stock from Toyota with a warranty for around $21k out the door. Not sure if that helps you.

If you want a unique car this is the one for you, the aftermarket is so huge it's almost ridiculous.

Thanks, I think he mainly likes the black one due to the Invidia exhaust, any thoughts on that? Does it typically add or detract value?

Adds value for some people, and detracts for others

not 1500 in value imo.


exhaust is easily swappable, and besides, suppose he does get a ticket, wouldn't be nice to have the stock in the garage instead of having to go buy a stock set of pipes.

Conventional wisdom is that a stock car will be worth more (all else equal).
Reasoning is that you don't know what parts were installed, and how they were installed.
Not sure if you could use it as a bargaining chip though.

You could probably find a decent used exhaust (on the forums even), for a reasonable price. It'd be a good idea to find out what wheels are on the car (ie. Are they replicas, or brand name wheels).

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KEEP LOOKING. Repeat...keep looking.

Surely there are tons of FRS/BRZ in Florida. And well worth one's time, if one must travel to get the best car.

I'd be looking for a car, never in an accident, never modded.

Does not matter where you find a car...private party sale, used car lot, new car dealership's used car lot....Certified means nothing to me...just means I'm gonna pay more. And a used Toyota on the lot of a Toyota new car dealership does not necessarily mean it's a trade in. New car dealerships often buy their brand of used cars from auctions to have more of their brand on their lots. So anything goes.

When you do find the car, seen in person, you like...Drive it. Then take it to a mechanic you trust who'll look it over, including on a lift before buying.

The mechanic should first drive the car himself/herself, look carefully under the hood, look up under the dash, and in the trunk for evidence of flooding, look very carefully underside of car, up on a lift for any evidence of accidents and rough road usage.

Not all damage to vehicles is reported to Carfax. Not all Certified cars have been looked at by a tech who is competent and thorough. Do your own homework on any car you are interested in.

Makes sense to pay a little more to get a great used car.

LOL...retired used car tech here...at new car stealerships.

for the price and miles mentioned, have you considered try looking into a 10 Series FRS or maybe even lucky to find a monogram FRS?

What's the 10 Series and the Monogram?

Real limited editions of the frs

Scion released a limited edition of the FR-S every year after the first year. These models were limited to 2000 sold in the US and usually came with more creature comforts. Alcantara/leather wrapped interior, heated seats, push button start, etc. Usually cost more and if you do decide for a limited version, I recommend looking at the BRZ as it should be cheaper.

Regarding these 2 options and if you're willing to spend $19k, I think you can definitely do better, at least in California. Idk the Florida market. I'd definitely avoid #1 too. All those "mods" listed can be sourced for less than $1.5K. If they're marketing it as "limited edition" when it's clearly not...raises a red flag in my book.

I private messaged you. Because I'm not sure if posting external links to carfax or cargurus are allowed.

Is a custom Ingen intake good or bad?

Gives a nicer sound, but often also causes driveability issues (ie. Bogging, lumpy idle, stalling issues).
I had one, and my engine would sometimes just shut itself off for no reason (went back to stock airbox, and it never happened again)

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Does the vehicle have any other modifications such as pulleys, headers (the exhaust manifold), and exhaust beyond just the catback?

Pulleys are known to have caused more harm than good on several other vehicles.

Any modifications that removes the catalytic converters (one on the exhaust manifold near the bottom of the engine and another in the middle of the exhaust system) could get you a ticket and a trip to the state ref, which would mean you would have to purchase the OEM part to replace the non-compliant aftermarket one. I don't live in Florida, so I wouldn't know how big of a deal of it is over there.

I take back what I said about picking the first one. Look for a better deal.

"Does the vehicle have any other modifications such as pulleys, headers (the exhaust manifold), and exhaust beyond just the catback?"

Not sure, we did not look under the car.