CEL on, CEL off
 

Hey, I know there's big threads about this stuff and I did read through them but just want some more input.

Bought a used '15 w/ 21k miles over the weekend on Saturday. Sunday after breakfast the CEL and TC light came on, got on here, read the mega-sticky and groaned, but I'm ok because warranty.

So I call the dealer I bought it from, they say take it to a Toyota dealer. I drive down to the Toyota dealer knowing their service dept isn't open but wanted to confirm warranty status. Got nothing but a bunch of BS from the sales guys "gas cap is loose" "car was sitting needs to figure itself out again" "TC light on means it's working"

Anyway, driving home from the Toyota dealer and the TC light goes off. Thinking maybe it does need to 'figure itself out' lol.. jokes on me I commute it 30 miles to work and the CEL goes off!

I'm going to have the code pulled at an auto parts store later today just for sanity and in case it comes back I have a little bit of a clue what's up before I take it to the dealer.

Based on the mega thread this just comes with the territory on these cars, but I kind of thought this would be sorted on a '15.

I guess I don't have a question I just wanted to vent a little. I'm keeping the car even though I could 'return' it today if I wanted.

is the car fully stock or have there been some modifications done to it? i have a 15 with 25K+ miles and didn't once get a CEL or TC light so far *knock on wood*

I think it's stock but I guess no way to know for sure. It has an odd spoiler that I think is aftermarket even though the dealer said it was stock, I posted in the cosmetic exterior sub-forum about it.

engine bay looks normal? anything out the ordinary compared to the factory engine bay?

http://image.automotive.com/f/scion-...ine-bayjpg.jpg

Stop by an auto parts store and have them read the codes and come back and let us know. Even if the lights have gone off, the ECU should still have saved the codes.




Take heart that if the lights did go off on their own, it probably was something with the pressurized fuel system like a loose gas cap. Usually they don't reset themselves without disconnecting the battery or using an OBDII reader.

Yeah I'm fairly certain it's stock. I've had modded cars before (although long time ago) and thoroughly looked over engine bay before I bought it. Since the spoiler appears to be a TRD part (thanks for the ID, FX86) I'm guessing rest of car is stock. I can't imagine someone doing ONLY an ECU flash and nothing else.

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll pull codes this evening and report back.

I suggest you invest in an inexpensive code reader.

That way, you can easily better understand what your car is trying to tell you .... ;)


humfrz

Your post actually tells us nothing and there's no help we can offer. Don't clear the CEL. Since you just bought the car have the dealership read the code and tell you 1 what the code is and 2 what it means. Double check online and Google the code make sure they are not bullshitting you.

It could be the gas cap is loose. It could be A LOT of things. Usually when the dealer opens with the loose gas cap, they are blowing you off.

You guys crack me up. I'm just an excited new owner, I'll try not to dirty the forum with the millionth rehash of whatever issue I have anymore.

Kind of sad it's considered normal to own a code reader but I've been away from 'enthusiast' cars for too long I guess. Reader is on the way, CEL has been off for two days.

Its a tool like any other. A code reader is not any more magical or rare than a wrench. It takes longer to get a wheel of the car than it does to read a code, and as a bonus, you dont end up sweaty/dirty. Also, its not because the dealer tells you something that it means exactly that. They are a business like many others, some are good and will do a fine job, others are shit and just looking for ways of taking money from you. A code reader comes in handy because you can easily tell when the dealer is telling you bullshit about it (since they seem to assume that nobody other than a mechanic of some sort can read these codes...)

This. I have wrenches that are more expensive than my code reader. There's no reason not to have one these days.

Yep, not having a code reader today, would be like trying to tune up a car of yesteryear without having a dwell meter, timing light or feeler gauge.

Well, maybe not necessary, but they were a good double check on the old ears .....:D


humfrz

Actually code readers are cheap if you have a smartphone and/or tablet. I bought a Bluetooth one for $12 at Amazon and downloaded the free version of Torque on my phone. Once I used it more than twice, I paid the fee minimal fee and got the paid version.

I use it all the time on all my cars, not just to look at codes but to look at other items, and sometimes just to play around to see what the car is doing when driving.

For the 86 get a low profile one. I have one of the older, long ones and it gets in the way when driving.

I believe the codes (depending on what they are) will clear after some period of time, at least in my experience. I owned an Astro that used to intermittently through an O2 sensor code (bad sensor) for no reason, usually right before I needed the emissions inspection. If I drove it long enough, the light would go out and it would pass emissions fine, no codes.

The car had over 200,000 miles on it, so I would just always make sure to go get an inspection well in advance when the light had been off for a week.

Hah and I thought I was old...

Yeah I get that it's a useful tool. I suppose my surprise was in needing one on a car with 20k miles. I do still have wrenches, jackstands, a jack and an airtank somewhere in my garage. ;) Maybe this time around I can have the kids be my labor.

I bought a standalone reader for $16 off amazon, that one click thing helps the impulse buys for sure! I know you all are eagerly awaiting my report of the codes but will have to wait another day.

Oh, ya, don't be over-doing now. An old man can get a bad kink in the back, plugging that code reader in ...... :D

And then there is the frustration understanding the code. The numbered translation to words speak of a bunch of stuff you didn't even know your car had.

It's NOT going to say that the number 2 spark plug is fouled or that the timing is not advanced enough or that the points gap is too narrow or the automatic choke is stuck or the idle mixture is too rich ........

NOOOOOOOO.......... THAT would be too damn simple, although it's still an internal combustion, naturally aspirated, gasoline engine....... :confused0068:

humfrz - lost in the 50's ......again ...... :cry:

P000C, this is gonna be fun.

It's off for now, I guess I should keep a close eye on it. Looking over the car fax I got from the dealer it was in every 1000 miles earlier this year for 'inspection', then a repair then up for sale.

I'll probably call the dealer that did that work tomorrow and see if I can get a more detailed history out of them.

Ugh.. so I took the car in finally and was told a shady story.. need some feedback to figure out if they are blowing me off.

The code as I mentioned is P000C, and apparently the work that was done before I bought it was to fix the same code. The dealer I took it to is local to me, NOT the one who did the previous work. Previous dealer was Toyota of Escondido, current dealer is Toyota of San Diego.

I was told Escondido did 'a near full teardown' and 'replaced cylinder head' and that if I was to authorize diagnosis at San Diego and they find defective work by Escondido dealer then *I'm* on the hook for repair cost. They are recommending I take it back to Escondido which is about 30 miles from me.

To me it seems like if they did all that work and it's throwing the same code then they didn't fix anything and just wasted the previous owner's time. Which is probably why they sold it..

Is this story about me being liable for other dealer's work true? SD is telling me if I take it back to Escondido then I'm in the clear. Sounds to me like they just don't know how to fix it and are trying to dodge a big warranty repair.

What should I do? Real tempted to sell the car and buy a '17. Unfortunately I'm addicted to the car already so either way I'm gonna stay in a twin. :D

Warranty work is warranty work. If an authorized dealer performed work on the car and screwed it up (or didn't fix the problem) then there is no way a different authorized dealer can hold you responsible. I would call directly into Toyota Customer service and get a firm ruling on that though.

I wouldn't be driving around too much with that code since these engines are known to have oil starvation issues (although rare in a 15) and that is one of the possible sources for the code.

Possible causes
- Erratic camshaft position due to low oil pressure
- Oil flow restriction in the oil passages or the variable camshaft timing (VCT) valve body
- Camshaft advance mechanism binding (VCT unit)
- Damaged VCT phaser
- Radio frequency interference (RFI)

Thanks for the feedback, Tcoat. I wasn't buying the liability story either, but at the same time I don't really want to force the issue and have half-assed work done.

I ended up calling the dealer who originally did the work and they were super cool about it, pulled up the car service record and immediately said they'd give me a rental while they worked on it again. So I'm going to give them another shot and cross my fingers.

What was funny is the guy assumed I was just a kid and/or modder saying "as long as you're old enough for a rental.." and "we can't be liable if you put headers or something on it that caused the issue".. I just laughed and said I'm an old and don't bother modding my cars anymore.

Replaced the ECU. Guess I just wait and see now.