Lowering springs bad?
 

Was thinking of getting lowering springs either

Eibach pro kit

or

H and R sport springs

however been told by a mechanic saying springs have little to no performance increase and itll eventually blow the struts. My question is will the struts really die that fast and how long will they last with 1 inch lowering springs? I daily the frs and occasionally do spirited drives but no tracking at all. Thanks

Your mechanic is not a suspension engineer, and it shows.

There is a definite improvement over the stock handling. As with everything, there are trade offs. The aftermarket springs will have a firmer ride, even if it is more stable than OEM. Being excessively lower will put additional strain on the OEM struts, but this is really only an issue with the springs that lower 1.4". 0.7" from RCE yellows or 1 inch from several others won't be an issue. I've been on RCE Yellows and OEM struts for two years now with no issues.

Here's one catch though. Struts are wearing components and will eventually blow. A set of Bilstein B6 struts runs about $900, which means now you're into springs and struts for around $1200. You can buy several nice sets of coilovers for less than $1200, namely the Tein Flex Z, ST Suspension, and Bilstein B14. So do you commit all of the money now for coilovers, or some now for springs and some later for struts? Or some now for springs and more later for coilovers?

Going to have to agree with your mechanic for the most part. Lowering springs aren't ideally matched to the stock struts and will always be a compromise. You can get away with them for a while, but you should replace your struts with better matched ones.

I had 25mm lowering springs from Mann Engineering and they blew my stock struts after 15,000 miles. Mann said that was even longer than they expected from their lowering spring.

Sure, stiffer feels better in the transitions, but ride suffers. Take a ride in a properly set up car and you'll get a better picture about what a car is supposed to feel like. Stiffer isn't always better!

Unless you buy lowering springs that are specifically matched to the stock struts, like the TRDs. Won't even void your factory warranty if installed correctly.

Or RCE Yellows. The OEM struts overpower OEM springs, so a slightly stronger spring works well with the OEM strut.

Your mechanic is half right, half worng. But overall if he isn't actively on a race track I wouldn't agree with everything he says.

The problem he sees is high mileage cars that put lowering springs on old and tired struts. The loss in the support puts extra work. So yeah the strut would give out shortly.

Ideally you want new lowering springs and performance dampers when you swap it out.

In your case since you don't plan to track your car, you'll be ok. If your car has over 80k miles on the original struts then it might me a good idea to replace the struts. Also keep away form super low drops, they just add more stress.

I'll go with TRD springs or from what I seen they are rebadged Eibach pro kits

If it is just a general mechanic don't listen, they are good for what they do but bad when it comes to performance modifications. Talk to someone who knows what you want to do, not to someone who just generally repairs cars.

And supposedly all lowering springs will increase the wear on shocks, but they will all eventually wear out anyways.

A mechanic friend told me I would ruin my tires by running more camber, he didn't have an answer when I showed him they were wearing better after going to -2.2* from 0*.

The big reason lowering springs get a bad reputation is twofold:

1) Cheap springs with rates that weren't tested against the stock shock rates.

2) People putting lowering springs on 10 year old shocks with 100k miles on them. Shock manufacturers typically recommend a replacement interval of about 50k miles. That's a guess at best, but if shocks have seen lots of miles they're probably due for replacement anyway.

I have almost 130k km's on my car, with at least 80k of those being on Swift sport springs. It's a true daily driven car, that has seen terrible roads (Toronto...) plus 30+ track days. The shocks are tired, but not blown.

It is a very general statement, and alot of factors are involved.

Will a lowering springs destroy dampers right away? Highly unlikely.
But it will depend on the OEM suspension design.
If you don't have a lot of travel to begin with, a big drop will mean you will be running out of travel often, and dampers do not like that.

As for the little to no performance gain? Again, it depends on what you justify as performance gain.
Lowering springs will help reduce body roll a little due to the higher springs rate.
However, as the damper is still the same, your suspension actually isn't changing the way forces are applied to the tires.

So do you get "little" performance gain? Possibly.
Is it enough to justify it as saying it is true performance gain? That depends on the person you are talking to and how picky he is.

Jerrick

@golemslord, I was in the same boat as you when I first got my BRZ. I wanted to drop it about an inch, so I bought the Swift Sport springs and had them installed along with rear lower control arms (necessary for rear camber adjustment), front camber bolts, and got an alignment.

They were exactly what I was looking for. Mild drop, ride quality wasn't harsh, less body roll in corners - seemed pretty planted when taking turns. They seemed to perform just as well as stock...until I did some canyon driving and hit bumps and uneven pavement mid-turn. I first got the sense that the rear end was more 'floaty' than before when I hit a dip on the freeway going at around 70mph before I went to the canyons. The rear end wiggled and felt unsettled, and didn't inspire confidence.

Up in the canyons, every time I encountered mid-curve dips, the rear end wallowed and felt unsettled. I wasn't happy with the way it felt.

So, after some research on here, I went with the Tein Flex Z coilovers. One of the best decisions I made. Now I tell everyone who has the similar needs that I have, to skip the lowering springs and just go to something like the Tein Flex Z's if they're on a budget like me; you're not spending that much more, and you do get more for what you spend.

With the adjustable coilvers, you also get the ability to adjust ride height (which you can't with just lowering springs), corner balance, and vary the damping depending on the road condition. I typically drive it on 'soft' for daily street driving, but firm it up in the canyons and smoother roads. It now feels like I had expected it to feel. Much more stable and predictable in uneven corners, with a better (adjustable) ride quality than the lowering springs + stock dampers.

So for me, who doesn't track the car and only does occasional spirited canyon runs, the stock dampers + lowering springs didn't cut it. And I don't think I'm even that picky.

Your description of the downfalls of lowering springs on stock dampers is spot on. I can't believe I lived with them for a year lol.

After switching to AST coilovers, the ride was so much better and the car never feels unsettled.

If I could go back, I would have probably purchased Bilstein B8 struts to go with the lowering springs.

There's a shitstorm of debate just a few clicks away about how in autocross the street class FR-S are allowed to use TRD springs and the BRZ's are stuck on OEM because it's a noticeable advantage.

Some people claim the TRD springs (and swaybars, FR-S can use OE sway, TRD sway, and one aftermarket sway, BRZ only get one aftermarket sway) give the FR-S as much as a 1 second advantage over a ~50s course.

Personally I'd try quality lowering springs and OE replacement dampers over most <$2k coilovers. Shit parts are shit parts, everybody is trying to make a buck and you can get shafted by a shift knob or a header or by the biggest names in the business.

On an 86 there's a couple options with good reputations for lowering springs, a couple bad ones, and a few in between. This is lucky, some cars only have one or two options with nothing standout and OE springs are actually more valuable than the aftermarket after the car is a few years out of production.

Dampers wear out, period. For the most part the OE units seem up to the task, only a few cases of early blowout. If you want to do it then do it, it won't blow your car up if you take your time and have it done right. And it's reversible, the best quality to look for in most mods.

Can BRZs not use STI springs in CS?

No as they are not a 'factory option' available in the United States. Those are actually JDM springs being imported in as far as I can tell. You might be able to make a case if you can order them through a Subaru USA dealer and installed by their service department, but as far as I can tell you can't.

Nevermind the fact that the TRD springs aren't a factory option either, they're dealer installed but Scion/Toyota USA installs them 'at port' 'before the car is delivered' and calls them 'factory'...

Point is the FR-S has a OE supported lowering spring in the U.S. and the BRZ doesn't. SCCA rules can be whack because they're written to classify 50 year old Mustangs alongside Chevy Vegas alongside brand new Focus RS and GT-R's and have a 'level' playing field after indexing. If they covered every case the rule book would be thousands of pages long.

Everything has already been hashed out already, so ill just say this: I've been beating on my car for 2 years at the track.. about every other month at track, every weekend in canyons. Im on TRD lowering springs and oem dampers using r-comps . No complaints or issues

I've had TRD Spring on the OEM Dampers for about 1K miles now. I have to admit I'm pretty surprised how harsh the ride is. It seems to smooth out a higher speeds, but low speed bumps or holes are jarring.


I had a NC Miata on full MazdaSpeed suspension (Springs, Shocks, Sways) and that was able to eat up the bumps better.


Hoping it smooths out at least a little bit.

Little or no performance gain is probably right. I like the word “little” that you stated. A little is a little and it helps. The looks will be improved a bit as well, as it reduces the fender gap. I found some post where people found the TRD springs to be harsher, however, myself and my wife as a passenger noticed and improved quality of riding comfort. I installed the TRD swaybar set as well for a more thorough or complete suspension system. The TRD lowering springs are designed to work with the stock struts. Since there covered under warranty (from my understanding) if the strut breaks it should be covered. You may want to consider the TRD’s, considering they were intended and designed by Toyota to be used with the stock struts..This link actually says that in the description.
Ryan
http://www.trdusa.com/parts-detail.h...categories=all

If the ride becomes to harsh on whatever springs you find yourself on, the comfort can sometimes be improved or reduced harshness by a different choice of tires. Perhaps a tire with a softer sidewall could help with comfort. This car though isn't exactly made for comfort... Performance sometimes is increased with a reduction in comfort

Back to the original question - are lowering springs bad?

Maybe! There's always going to be a person that swears they are the best thing for you car and another that will say they are the devil. It's good to understand what your expectations are for both current and future performance of both the springs and the car.

The topic of stock vs. lowering springs vs. coilovers vs. bags is an age old conversation

In short.. get the spring don't worry too much about shock for a while but set aside a sum of money for coilovers while you do you daily drives .. by the time your shock blow and you don't give a rat's backside about the spring and want to start adjusting serious ride height for performance you'll have enough for a good suspension upgrade 😃

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Okay thanks for all the inputs guys. Is the eibach pro kit basically trd springs ? Coils are around 1.6k with install and alignment in cad so thats pretty pricey for me as a student. Probably going for springs atm

Uhh no lol they're different but both great eibach is known for its good sporty lowering springs so pretty much better than a lot of stock, TRD springs are specifically made for our car and with OEM quality and won't mess with your suspension Warrenty. Either choice would suffice. More of a brand choice at this point I guess

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If you believe all the unconfirmed theorization, the TRD springs are likely made by Eibach and are very similar to the pro kit. Doesn't mean they are the same, but they could be, or at least very similar.

If you want to preserve full warranty no questions asked, get the TRD. If you are OK with a potential warranty issue (really a gray area, depending on what went wrong and if Toyota can determine its the aftermarket springs' fault), get the Eibach.

If money is an issue, get neither. Even lowering springs will run you $600-900 CAD with installation if you aren't going to wrench it yourself. Car drives great and looks great stock.

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the guy wants to make money off of you by selling you expensive full coilover system.

The only experience I have with lowering springs are the RCE yellows and they were great! Only a 20mm drop but they perform really well. Arguably better than the stock springs. If you want to keep the warranty though, TRD springs would be the way to go. Of course all TRD products come at a premium.

:thanks: Add hydraulics, and you might as well toss in "cutting coil springs" too. There is so much misinformation being spread on all of the above topics, that it's worse than a political race sometimes!

For those lowered 1 inch, have you had any issues with your axles?

BRZ! I was planning on lowering mine with Hotchkis springs, but then I stumbled across the thread about those who have had theirs fail. It seems most that have failed were lower than 1 inch and they are tracking their car.

I'm lowered on Hotchkis, and no problems after 2.5 years, and 30k miles, if not more.

That's awesome, just what I wanted to hear.

xD you know you want it just need a confirmation ;)

I want to do so bad, I already have the springs. Might have to get them installed next weekend now.

I had eibach lowring springs which lowered my car 1.6 down. Had no issues. Drove my car in almost 30 states. Also had 18x9.5 wheels all around....

does lowering the car make the car less tail-happy?
i'm thinking of getting TRD springs and getting them installed at a shop. i'm guessing 500 dollars total. is it worth it?

The TRD springs actually keep the front/rear stiffness ratio (both are stiffer by the same percentage) so the rates themselves shouldn't change the car's balance.

However, I found that the rear picked up more negative camber than the front from the lowering. More negative camber in the rear generally helps keep the rear planted when turning.

Installed Pro Kit strictly for the fender gap and crossed my fingers about ride quality . . . which is actually better than stock for 90% of typical road undulations. But there is a noticeably harsher ride vs stock over the last 10% of the real nasties.

Handling - no difference for me.

ARB's are your best bet if you want to tune the under/over steer of the car.

I have the TRD springs, approximately 1 inch lowering. I really cannot tell the difference in ride and as others have mentioned, this is a dealer option that has no impact to warranty so I truly doubt there is any significant issue with the struts if installed properly. I installed these springs solely for cosmetic reasons and am quite pleased overall - I would do it again and have absolutely no regrets.

I never track this car - it is my daily driver with occasional spirited runs. If you do not track your car I doubt you will notice a difference on the street other than an improvement in the wheel well gap.

Good luck!

I just got Eibach's and I couldn't find a shop to install them for under $400 which I thought was crazy. After getting several ridiculous quotes I decided to try it myself, I'm not anything close to a mechanic and I'm glad I tried because it wasn't that difficult to do at home. I didn't have a spring compressor so once I got the struts out I took em to a shop and paid $20 to have them safely pop off the stock springs. Definitely worth it! The Eibach's are designed with the stock struts in the mind and the car looks fantastic now. Not too sure about the handling abilities yet.