Clutch problems please help
 

I just installed a new clutch and flywheel in my frs but I've had several problems first of all the car won't start and my clutch pedal feels loose when before it felt stiffer. I don't know what to do please help

Did you mess with the crankshaft position rotor? If it's installed backward, the engine won't start.

Well, HELLO MelvinKennyG and welcome to our forum...... :clap:

WOW - big project, good for you taking it on ...... :thumbsup:

If you haven't already done so, you might review this DIY to see if you can glean any hint as to what is wrong.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ghlight=clutch

I see one of our best mechanical guys is on the case ....:w00t:

@Ultramaroon ...... what on earth is a crankshaft position rotor, what does it do and where is it ...... ?? .....:sigh:


humfrz

It's a disc that fits between the engine and the flywheel. It has tabs cut into it that can be seen by a proximity sensor. It works exactly the same way that the wheel speed and camshaft position sensors work.

http://i.imgur.com/vFXNr1M.png

@MelvinKennyG .... when you say the engine won't start, do you mean it won't turn over or it won't fire .... ??


humfrz

What I mean is that when I press the clutch in and turn the key the end r won't fire up it'll try to but it just won't crank

I didn't mess with the crankshaft position rotor at all

@MelvinKennyG in that DIY you may wish to pay particular attention to:

- On the top of the transmission you're gonna see a tangle mess of wires and hoses but we really only need to worry about a few of them. There are 2 connectors (one red and one gray) that need to be disconnected. There's also a ground wire that need to be unbolted from the top of the tranny. You can also see the clutch actuator, its held on with two 14mm bolts. DO NOT REMOVE THE BOLT TO THE CLUTCH LINE UNLESS YOU WANT TO DEAL WITH BLEEDING IT LATER!

- One thing I forgot to take a picture of is the wiring that needs to be removed from the starter. On the back of the starter you will see a small connector that needs to be removed. Also there is a rubber boot covering a 12mm nut on a wire terminal, remove this and move the wires out of the way."


Now, tell me that you DID hook the starter back up ...... :eyebulge:


humfrz

I believe I did connect the starter correctly

I'm sorry, I have to ask ....... you did hook the battery back up ..... ??

When you hit the key (start switch) does it go "click-click-click" .. ??

Have you checked the voltage on the battery ...... maybe it died during the operation .... :iono:


humfrz

I think there's some confusion over terminology. OP,

Crank = turn over = starter motor actually rotates the engine.

Fire = anything more than that. Could be a single pop, a sputter, or actually runs on its own for a few seconds.

Yea I hooked it up correctly at first I thought my battery had died but after doing a battery test it showed it was fine. Like I said before what i find weird is that my clutch feels a lot softer than before maybe it's not making good contact. My car will not turn on at all it'll seem like it's about to start but then just doesn't

Does the starter rotate the engine? Does it rotate the engine with the same vigor as it did when it was working properly or, if it rotates, does it labor?

As far as the soft clutch ...... be aware of this part of the DIY.

"You can also see the clutch actuator, its held on with two 14mm bolts. DO NOT REMOVE THE BOLT TO THE CLUTCH LINE UNLESS YOU WANT TO DEAL WITH BLEEDING IT LATER!"

So, does your clutch system need bleeding .. ??

How about the clutch return spring ..... is it still in place .. ??


humfrz

It seems like it does turn the engine the same way as before.

I only took off the 14mm I didn't disconnect any lines

Ok, then my money's on something else electrical. Are you absolutely certain you reconnected the ground wire? The black wire in the DIY pic that humfrz posted?

All the wires, for that matter?

I know you said you didn't mess with that encoder wheel but are you absolutely positive it is still installed properly?

Are you certain the crankshaft position sensor itself is not damaged? This is the most common issue with flywheel replacement that causes exactly the same symptoms you describe.

Yep, I'll go along with ol Ultramaroon, I'd bet it's something electrical.

I'd suggest you carefully check all ground wires and carefully plus check those connectors (make sure they are not plugged in backwards (tried to be at least)) by disconnecting them and re-connecting them.


humfrz

Well, @MelvinKennyG ..... this old keyboard mechanic is going to have to turn in for the night.

Maybe ol Ultramaroon will hang in there ...... after all, he IS younger that I .... :thumbsup:

Maybe in the morning, the morning keyboard mechanics will have some fresh ideas.


humfrz

I checked all the wiring again and it all seems ok

hmmmm........let me think on that.

I reckon @Ultramaroon may have some more ideas when he gets home from work.

Meanwhile, who out there has some fresh thoughts ...... ??

@Tcoat is just laying around a motel room ..... maybe he has some insight ....:iono:


humfrz

I'll ask another couple questions that may seem unrelated but trust me, they are.

1. Did you know to support the engine before you removed the transmission?

2. Was there anything at all about the job that did not go well? For instance, did the flywheel fit just fine, or did you have to force it?

.........and another question:

Was the clutch and flywheel OEM or after market?

humfrz

Really intrested to see where this goes. A buddy of mine did his cluch on his '13 FRS and everything was fine after install.

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Just thinking out loud here.

If the engine is spinning over and it fails to fire, one or more of these conditions may exist:

* it's out of gas

* there is no compression

* both fuel pumps went bad at the same time

* all 4 coil packs/spark plugs when bad at once

* the ECU is not telling the engine to inject fuel and/or not to send spark

So, I'm figuring the ECU is not asking for fuel or spark.

Now, what is the "connection" between the flywheel/clutch/pressure plate/transmission and the ECU ..... ??

(I can't be much help, because that's over my pay grade ....:()


humfrz

I wouldnt be surprised if the clutch isnt making any or just barely not enough contact to fire up. Couldnt tell if OP said that the car clicks when he goes to start it or not.

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Thanks, lizbrayan, for joining the ....think tank..... :)

Since the starter turns the flywheel and the flywheel is connected to the crankshaft ..... would it matter if the clutch was there at all ...... when it comes to the engine firing .... ??

As I recollect, the OP says the engine turns over but won't fire (is that correst, OP..??)


humfrz

I think that the clutch might not be making contact how can I fix that?

Hmm good point humfrz, the op said the clutch feels soft after install looking at it from a mechanical point something isnt put in right giving the pedal its stiffnes

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Take it all apart again and start over but this time do it more carefully to make sure everything fits into place without force

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I think that your first priority should be to get the engine running.

Once the engine is running, the clutch situation would be easier to diagnose.

Meanwhile, some questions have been asked that you haven't answered.....:)


humfrz

What makes you think that ....... :iono:


humfrz

Well, I've said my piece and none of my questions answered.

I think the encoder slipped off of the guide pin and the new flywheel was jammed over the top of it. @lizbrayan's right. Pull it all apart and do over. I don't know if it's possible to push that guide pin down into the crankshaft but if so, that thing's going to be a bitch to extract.

I supported the engine the whole time and everything went pretty smooth nothing went in forced

The pedal feels really loose unlike before

Well, if the pedal is REALLY lose, it could be:

* that is not pumping any fluid to the slave cylinder because there is air in the line (bleed the line) or there is no fluid to pump (add fluid).

* the slave cylinder is shot (unlikely)

* the master cylinder is shot (unlikely)(can be checked when you try to bleed the system).

* the clutch fork/ throw out bearing is not pushing on the pressure plate.

* you forgot to install the pressure plate or the throw out bearing or the clutch fork (just kidding).

* have you ever replaced a clutch before .. ??

I'm about to go along with @lizbrayan ...... you just might have to take it apart and put it back together.

QUESTIONS for you:

If the clutch was aftermarket, what clutch is it .. ??

Did it come as a set (flywheel, clutch disk & pressure plate) .. ??

Did you replace the throw out (release) bearing ..??

Come back ....:)

Story on me. The first time I overhauled an engine, when I went to crank (literally) it over ..... it wouldn't budge. Why? Cause I didn't realize that the piston rod caps were shimmed and the new rod bearings were thicker than the old rod bearings.......:bonk:

(hey, cut me some slack, I was only 14 years old )


humfrz

I second humfrz check the obvious stuff that is easy to get to before you start taking stuff apart again. Im only 19 and just started my car repair/modifying career so i dont yet have the balls to take on a trans job like that alone. And @humfrz i am super jelous you got to work on cars so young.

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Op is in way over his head at this point. Car needs to go to somebody that can see it to troubleshoot.

Actually, most of my early experience with machines were with tractors. Yep, on the farm, at least one was in need of repair of some sort, at all times.

I got my first road vehicle when I was 14 (my grandfather gave it to me). My very first vehicle was a 1937 Chevrolet pickup, which took the brunt of my learning curve...... :eyebulge:

I remember one fine day, while working the fields, that one could "wire the governor open" for a burst of power, to get through the wet spots in the field, by running a long piece of bailing wire from the governor arm up to the seat of the tractor.

Yep, sort of like a shot of nitrous .......... :happyanim:

However, I also learned NOT to let the wire get close to the magneto, that was sort of like pissing on a spark plug ...... :confused0068:


humfrz

....and you are way ahead of the curve ........:thumbsup:


humfrz