Downshift to 1st at low speed
 

Out of curiousity, do you guys downshift to 1st at low speed, for example like 7, 8 mph or keep it in second.

some ppl mention always double clutch to first. however, i tried to single clutch downshift to 1st with rev matching, it works fine. No clucking or grinding. Is it necessary to downshift to 1st with double clutch? try to practice double clutch a few times but end badly.

Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't depends on what I am going to do next.
Never double clutched this car once for any reason.

it depends. 7 mph can have a lot of scenarios
For example,,if going up hill stop sign like San Francisco. i definitely down shift first gear

Double-clutching these days is as necessary as having a crank in your car to start it.

Unless in very specific difficult circumstances, like a steep uphill, I have never felt the need to downshift to 1 as long as the car is still rolling. And that was in cars with far less power AND torque than the twins.

I granny shift, not double clutch like I should have.

some ppl mention double clutch downshift protects the whole transmission. However, i tried it but failed. Its kinda hard to do it in the real life situation than how they mention the way to double clutch orally.

do u downshift like i do or u actually DOUBLE CLUTCH.

still, i wanna make sure i did everything right to my car though

2nd gear all the way then? sometimes when in traffic in freeway at low speed, i use second to follow the car in front of me. However, my car shakes a little though.

no double clutch necessary then?

No, i dont double clutch...not really necessary...

Well this may depend on the specific car, but in all manual cars I have driven (note: no twin among them) it was perfectly fine to stay in 2nd. Even at very slow speeds I found it unnecessary to downshift to 1st. And rolling slowly in 1st is hard to be done smoothly as there is huge engine braking effect, so when you lift your foot the car may become jerky.


I only downshift to 1st after complete stop, or if maneuvering like getting into a parking spot, or over a curb or large holes and bumps on an unpaved road, or rarely up a steep incline.

Being lazy, in stop-and-go traffic I'd even start in 2nd sometimes to save myself the effort of shifting and pressing the clutch every 4 seconds...

However on this car rpm falls below 1000 at second gear when the speed is 6 7 mph. When you try to move the car at second, the car shakes a little though as if it tries to engage with the gear or something

That would be lugging the motor, and its right up there with the worst things you can do for your car.

I downshift to 1st many times daily, usually double clutching for it. Very easy at the right speed.

For example turning into my driveway, it's an uphill driveway that I have to turn into driving uphill. I just clutch in from ~10mph from 2nd, momentum slows, double clutch and have a nice easy downshift to 1st for a right turn into the driveway. The clutch has no trouble catching at that speed, soft as a feather.

But It's also easy to just rev match downshift into 1st if necessary, for instance during Auto-X, but it is more forceful on the syncros.

I don't have this problem. Must be operator error. :D

I often end up in stop and go traffic that is moving too slowly for second gear, so I downshift to first and creep along at 1000 to 1200 RPM. The car will let you do it smoothly as long as your accelerator foot isn't spastic. I try to find the average speed of the traffic so that I don't actually have to alternately slam the accelerator and brake like the douches around me who are hell bent on keeping anyone from getting in front of them.

At low speeds this car--or perhaps the driver of this car--is susceptible to a phenomenon called pilot induced oscillation. PIO is an aircraft term in which the pilot (or driver in our case) fails to anticipate how the craft will react to an input and then overcompensates in the other direction. The operator repeats these poorly timed inputs in phase with the vehicle's reaction, and the vehicle's reaction feeds off the inputs as well until the vehicle is bucking around like a bull. You think it's the car that's jerky, but it's not. It's the driver. This problem is worst in situations where small operator inputs make relatively large changes, like moving the pedal at very slow speeds. To put it in plain language, you push the gas pedal ever so slightly too hard, the car takes off too fast, you let off the gas pedal too much, engine braking tries to stop the car and stall, you hit the gas again, etc. until you finally give up, clutch in and coast instead.

But you don't have to do that. If you know what the car is going to do, you can use smoother inputs and glide right through the car's tendency to oscillate. The car will allow very fine input to the accelerator if you don't try to riverdance on the pedals. It just takes some patience to learn the finesse.

Where I live, we have speed bumps. So I go ahead and buy one of the lowest stock cars ever made. There's reasons I didn't choose brain surgery for a career. So I have to shift down into first and crawl home off the street.

In second. Clutch in. Blip the throttle. drop a cog. Clutch out smoothly. Easy peasy

:slap: ........that's just for the hell of it ....... :D


humfrz

Well, 86wtywly, as posted above, you can see that everyone has their own technique and strategy.

As they say in the old Army "it depends on the situation".

Personally, I don't shift into 1st unless the car is stopped or I predict that the car's engine will lug (shutter) upon acceleration. Example: like going up hill, around a blind corner, on a gravel road, with no guardrails, at 12,000 feet of elevation.

Summary ..... I suggest just do what works for you and your car ..... just don't grind the gears or lug the engine.......;)



humfrz

OK. Like I said, my experience with driving manual cars slowly does not include the twins.

Driving MT is probably the most over thought practice on the internet car forums. It doesn't matter what Billybob, Cletus or Bubba have to say since they probably don't do exactly the same thing all the time anyway. Double clutch if you want to and don't if you don't. None of the methods are "better" for the car really. Just relax and get used to the car and it will all come eventually. As long as you are not grinding, over revving, lugging or burning the clutch there is very little that can be done to hurt a MT during regular driving.

I do whatever it takes to get it into first without using force at any speed up to 25 mph or whatever first gear redline is. I developed a many-years-old habit of double clutching into first since the early 80s. I just recently began experimenting with leaving the clutch depressed in neutral and revving up to spin the clutch disc. I'm not sure yet that I prefer it over double clutching but old habits die hard. @Stang70Fastback

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...19#post2743219

Haha, Ultramaroon and I had a discussion about this not too long ago! (The thread he linked above.) Here's a video I made (also in that thread) where I did NOT double clutch and was able to downshift to 1st at 15 and 20 MPH without issue.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcxhxA5RtGw"]Rolling Downshift to 1st in a BRZ - YouTube[/ame]

:cheers:

Personally I think that shifting into 1st isn't necessary unless I'm on a ridiculous incline that requires a ton of torque. If I had to shift into 1st, I would just downshift revmatch. Even then, shifting into 1st is painful af in every scenario.

@Stang70Fastback ... Damn that looked really rough on your transmission.

I'd double clutch into 1st gear if I'm going 15mph or something. As low as 7 or 8mph, you can just shift it into 1st. Double clutching places less strain of you sychros or no strain at all of you match the engine speed with your transmission.

Absolutely not. Done properly, buttery smooth.

What ^he^ said.

When double clutch, u shift second to neutral. Now u let off the clutch and depress the gas pedal to the desired rpm range. And then shift into first. I know the procedure, however when I tried it, it's even worse than single clutch downshift. Juz wondering.

Juz wondering how u guys achieve double clutch downshift. When I am in neutral and depress the gas pedal to the desired rpm range, and then depress the clutch and shift to first. It felt harder to shift comparing to single clutch downshift. Dunno why.

Not sure what you're asking. That is how you double clutch, but I did not do that in the video. I just clutched in and went from 2nd straight to 1st while blipping the throttle.

It's all in the timing ...... ;)

If you can get the timing just right, one doesn't have to use the clutch (except for starting off). Ask any old trucker about "jake shifting" ......:)


humfrz

Yup. Used to do this for fun all the time when I drove an old, manual school bus. Just enough throttle to "unload" the drivetrain, then slip it out of gear, rev properly, and slot it into the next gear, all without touching the clutch...

...which was useful because the clutch pedal came up twice as far as the other pedals, and was stiff AF, so after an hour your knee would start to hurt.