Laile Under Panel ventilation
 

Saw this on FB: https://www.facebook.com/14428608359...type=3&theater

http://i.imgur.com/EOkeWpR.jpg

Thoughts? Would it help ventilate engine heat better?

That's a solution to a non-existing problem.

Anything that moves more air through the compartment will help somewhat.
Of course I can't read the text but I have serious doubts that it will change it from orange to green though.
The designers of the car would probably have included such a system if they felt there was any real advantage. Could be worth a shot if not tooooo pricey.

I disagree. Anyone that has headers, some coated, some wrapped, some bare will attest that it gets hot under there. Especially if you have an HKS V1, Jackson Racing SC or any intake that draws air under the hood.

My installer left the bottom underside plastic panel just aft of the front bumper off due to my deeper than usual intercooler, but I think it might help increase air volume thru the front opening and the bottom (without anything scientific to back this).

There is demand for under hood cooling.

Is that the same as this?
http://www.kamispeed.com/Beatrush-Al...br.s564000.htm

I agree that there is definitely a demand for under-hood cooling for the FI folk. But I've never seen any under hood temp data to show that the louvered underpanels work. I doubt that they'd do anything in stop and go traffic (where I'd want it). I'd expect hood vents to be the most effective method of allowing heat to escape.

Obviously this is passive cooling for the vehicle when moving. A lot less invasive than hood vents.

Yes, agreed. Still, I wonder how effective it is when moving. I've been considering hood vents but just don't want to cut into my hood.

Now, fess up, there, billwot ........ you're down on that mod, just because you would find it difficult to crawl under your car to change it out ...... then when you're under there, your tri-focals wouldn't focus and there is a good chance you would forget to take the screwdriver under with you ....... and then you could hardly crawl out from under the car and almost pass out when you finally did get stood upright.

:lol:


humfrz

No, I just never understood why folks obsess about airflow through engine compartment of cars with water-cooled engines. Unless the design airflow is damaged or altered, its just not a problem. Never had any issues with my rear-engine turbo MR2! :rolleyes:

BTW...

1) Since my cataract surgeries, I no longer wear bi-focals. (never needed tri-focals)

2) 7 days a week at the gym, including 3 days of yoga, keeps me pretty good at bending down and standing up. :cheers:

billwot,

The issue is the stock exhaust manifold has heat shielding all over it, but none of the performance headers do. I don't want to go to the trouble of removing my header after the fact and having it coated. It gets damn hot under the hood.
This compounded with high intake air temps (IAT's) if the car is modified and draws air from under the hood as many FI kits do.

The greater the power, the more the heat.

This would be a a useless mod for a stock engine IMHO.

For a street car, chances are none of this matters. If you track your car or if you're just a fan boi with a build then you might care.

Compared to a solid skid plate this will provide more front end down force, less drag and better cooling. However, I doubt it's as good as the stock plate because there is negligible cost in forming the metal for good aero and there's no way that Laile can do aero better than Subaru's multi-million dollar aero facility and their team of PHDs in the aero department.

In short, this is better than having a solid skid plate but probably not better than the stock panel and not even close to as good as hood vents.

Source https://youtu.be/s1QpD5vY1u4?t=198

i would consider hood vents better, as it would route the air over the car. generally it's better practice to reduce air underneath the car...

I have one on my WRX. Never did any testing on engine compartment temps.

For my BRZ, when I put headers on they were rubbing. So while I had the stock one off I banged it out a bit to make room for the spot that was rubbing, and I cut out my own venting like the beatrush one. Again no temps checked.

I like to think it helps.

I had one recently installed on my FRS with UEL headers since, compared to stock that has a heat shield, I noticed that the engine bay's a lot hotter even after applying ceramic coating to the headers. With the Laile (Beatrush) under panel, I noticed that the engine bay cools faster after a couple of minutes of parking it.

According from the articles that I've read, its flat bottom design creates low-pressure zone for down force & the vents help channel out the trapped air that causes air resistance at high speeds. With it, you can even push the car to travel faster & while maintaining good stability. Moreover, having a cooler engine bay will extend the shelf life of the rubber & plastic components in it.

I think it's more of a solution looking for a problem. If you look closely at the marketing, they seem to be confused about what problem they're actually solving. That makes me suspicious of the product from the outset.

If you read the description on the Kamispeed site, Beatrush is marketing it as an aero accessory that is somehow supposed to increase downforce rather than as a cooling solution. I'm no aeronautical engineer, but that claim seems like bullshit.

I wouldn't believe any anecdotes of any product providing cooler temps, even when measured with an IR thermometer. There are too many opportunities for confirmation bias.

What you need instead is footage with an IR camera to see the entire engine bay with hot and cool spots. In the Jeep world we had some claims made about underhood heat that completely fell apart when someone did before and after IR videos with certain parts showing what was actually happening. People had taken measurements with IR thermometers to support their claims, but it turned out they were pointing them at hot spots that didn't capture where the cooling was actually happening. Most likely confirmation bias led them to hunt for those hot spots to give them the results they wanted, without even realizing they were doing it. The IR footage removed some of the ability to alter the results.

Some vehicles (perhaps ours, perhaps not, I don't know) can develop issues with heat trapped under the hood that can affect sensors and ignition coils, cause heat soak in the fuel system and reduce the life of plastic parts that become brittle from being overheated. The engine itself is perfectly content with its coolant flow from the radiator while the things attached to it are baking. Usually, however, those issues are a problem at slow speeds or when stopped rather than when moving.

That doesn't stop anybody from misunderstanding the problem and saying, "Derp! I gots to get rid of all that heat under my hood because it caused a problem in my uncle's 1980 ricebox!"

I let it be the first time, but putting hot less dense air into the space under the car that has a vacuum helping to create down force is not going to help the handling. there is a reason the bottom of race cars are paneled.

^^Exactly my thoughts. Are they trying to solve heat or add downforce? Dumping engine compartment air under the car (or anywhere, really) will help with heat. It'll make downforce worse, if dumped under the car..

Love when an old thread get's resurrected and so many want to debate with people that have not been here in 3 or 4 years.

Let's be real here. At the speeds these car reach, even when track modified, the slight difference in air temperature underneath will have no discernable difference on handling.

Cabin fever.

I don't think ls1ac and certainly not myself are saying anything to correlate heat with downforce. Simply just that dumping more air under the car is NOT going to improve downforce, as the original diagram is trying to imply.

Beat me to it. Best it does is help with heat, however marginal that might be.

Certainly did not feel any handling benefit at highway speeds. Unlike when I put the front lip and sideskirts on, where I noticed an improvement on those crazy windy days. But those are mostly cosmetic as well under normal driving conditions.

UMMMMMMM

Yes, I read that, and I'm going on record as saying I assumed he chose his words poorly and really was meaning dumping ANY air (in this case, heated air, though it has zero effect on the situation...) under the car was not a good thing for downforce...

Nah he was very specific about heat and density. It could probably be proven with math but the real world effects just would not be there.

Hmmm...in that case then, hot air under the car would be better than cold, dense air. Less drag, right? ;)

It rises though so it pushes you up at the same time.


Did we just invent hover tech? I am calling the patent office.

Thank you for the understanding, any added air under the car reduces the down force. (the whole purpose of the splitter under paneling side skirts and rear diffuser)
I will have to go back to the books to find definitive reasons why hot air reduces lift on a wing. Somehow just stuck in my mind.
This is negative lift or down force.

I don't think that's true at all. If anything underbody/ground effect aero is much more efficient and has the ability to generate more downforce than the top of a vehicle. Most advanced splitters have diffusers, beveled edges and even center steps to move as much volume as it possibly can to create a greater negative pressure region and drive the splitter to produce more downforce.

But, I still think this panel is just an overpriced piece of aluminum.

I think we are saying the same thing. Down force is both negative pressure under the car and wings or what ever over the car that produce a downward force. I was only talking about adding air under the car thus reducing the negative pressure.
The ground effect cars of the 70s with side skirts that touched the ground demonstrated how very important keeping air out from under the car was.

I don't believe we are?

Take a look at these advanced front splitters.
Among other things, they have steps in the center to force more air into the under body of the vehicle. The secondary function is to stop the underbody from essentially "stalling" out or being choked of air flow if the front splitter bottoms out.

Side skirts are used to reduce the amount of high pressure area on the side of the car from being sucked in under the car from the sides. Air flow under the car is at a low pressure, which causes the higher-pressure air on the outside and on the sides of the car to come rushing in diminishing ground effect and downforce. Basically they keep the low pressure region under the car "tunneled" and controlled until it can be effectively and smoothly evacuated from the rear diffuser.

https://races.ferrari.com/static/wp-...ver.jpg?f0e117
https://www.mulsannescorner.com/Audi...ng2009-MF2.jpg

Maybe we understand the same principal, but saying air dams and skirts are for keeping air out from underneath the car is misleading at best and a gross over simplification.

I'm still here! I'm still here! What are we debating? :thumbsup:

I absolutely agree with grossss simplification. Channeling and bubble effect are a world away from the simple model.


{Wait till we get to trans sonic.}


I still think we are on the same page about the low pressure area under the car. As you said The side skirts are there to keep air from getting under the car. Venting air to the underside is putting more air under the car. That was where I started.

I will also say that a 120MPH car is much more forgiving than a 200MPH car.


I was there when they first found that they had to weld the 160lb man hole covers down.

Dammit.

It wasn't the folks in this thread who made that claim. Beatrush claims on their product page that the vented cover increases downforce, which seems like bullshit. Laile says it's for cooling, Beatrush says it's for downforce, and I think it's just to waste some money on something nobody really needs.

But it is an interesting discussion of aerodynamics:

This is a good point. An airfoil or wing must have laminar flow over both the top and bottom surfaces for lift (or downforce) to happen. If you cut off the airflow under the car completely, seems like you'd get reduced downforce (or none at all) because the system wouldn't reconnect on the other end.