TMP track times
 

Hey guys/gals, I've been attending several track days at TMP this summer and I am curious what other twins are clocking at Cayuga.

My best time so far was 1:25:60 with a passenger and pretty worn tires.

Upgrades to the car are coilovers, LCA, hawk hp+ pads and 255/40/17 RS3's. Other than that the car is stock performance wise.

My first time on this track I couldn't break into 1:27s and eventually got into 1:25s with more practice, so I understand that driver skill is very important for getting fast lap times. With that said, post up your lap times and what you have done to your car.

I want this thread to be specific to TMP track only, as it can serve as a reference for anyone trying to reach their goal laptimes.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isCMoAUxT7M"]FRS TMP Cayuga lapping 1:25:60 - YouTube[/ame]

Not me, but a good video for reference.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stQ7WqEh2tY"]The Fastest Street Tire? - Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R Tire Test in a Scion FR-S - YouTube[/ame]

255/35/18 AD08R's, coilovers (MCS IIRC), tune and catback -> 1:21.8. Same car on stock tires was 1:25.5.

To be fair, Dave has TONS of time at TMP and a big driving resume.

^ I've been following speed academy for about a year now and Dave does seem like he has a good amount of seat time. 1:21:8 is very impressive, to me at least haha.

I will soon need to retire my RS3s and will need to research some other tire with similar or better characteristics.

Some guy on YouTube did 1:24 with seat and seat belt, all else being stock.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMlxBPG_oQ4"]BRZ-driver: EK 1.24.16-Cayuga TMP - YouTube[/ame]


according to the following, stock is 1:26
http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...chassis-setup/
http://www.autoguide.com/car-compari...-hfp-2165.html

^ 1:26:6 is quick for a stock frs/brz. Must have been a good driver. Having a good data acqusition system also helps getting a more accurate reading. I was using a racechrono app on my android phone, so i'm not sure how accurate it is.

But my main problem on the track was staying firm in my seat, i think a harness would help a lot with keeping me in place which should improve laptimes.

Pretty sure that 1:26 in stock twin is set by Dave.

I did a 1:24.1 with coilovers, bbk, and RS3 a week and a half ago. Was a really hot/humid day and both brakes & tires were struggling.

How many laps do you guys go out for before a break?

I usually do 8-9 TOTAL (including 1 warmup and 1 cooldown lap). I always try to go on Mondays since the track is virtually empty.

I managed a 127.XX timed from a video this past Saturday, with a worn set of stock sized RE71R's, the first time at the track. Car is stock, and I know I had faster laps, but I lost the camera on the 4th lap in and never put it back on the car.
I can tell by my tread wear pattern that I could benefit from more negative camber up front.

Until I run out of tires, brakes, or concentration - whichever comes first. Or when I run out of fuel :lol:

ive ran a 122.5 on 255 re71r and kw clubsports and pads. now with new setup im trying to get into the 21s

That should be totally doable on the RE71R's, they're definitely stickier than AD08R's.

hopefully be faster once i get my JR charger in

I should feel embarrassed for pulling 1.31 with passenger on pretty much stock car. First time at the track though, definitely 1.30 material if I kick my friend's 140lb fat ass :P

So much this. This year alone I've had to finish at least 1 season each track day early because of either miscalculating fuel or just not checking at all. If I were allowed to stay on track as long as I wanted, it would probably be 30 minutes. At 25+ minutes my concentration starts to drop off dramatically, I think the amount of sweat has to do with that. (no AC, windows rolled up, just hot air bwing blowed inside the car).

How comparable are the RE71R's to the RS3?

I daily my car with the RS3's now and they held up pretty well after 5 track days and over 15k kms. But next season I plan on having a dedicated set of track wheels so i'm looking for a better performing tire for the track. I've also heard that RE71R's wear much quicker than it's competitors.

RE71R's definitely wear faster than RS3's, and overheat quicker on track as well. Depending on vehicle, tire size, etc, you might only get 2 or 3 hot laps on RE71R's before they're overheated and super greasy. If you're maxing out both tires, you'll probably be a full second faster on RE71R's than RS3's.

I personally wouldn't buy RE71R's unless you're competing, just not worth it IMO.

RE71Rs are cheap enough to buy 2 or 3 sets a season.
Having owned both RS-3s and the RE71Rs, I prefer not only the extra grip of the Bridgstones, but also the much stiffer and responsive sidewall.
The RS-3s feel downright sloppy by comparison. That and you're comparing Bridgstones to Hankooks.

they are actually very consistent when running at 30-32psi hot, ive ran them for 10+ laps per session and they never lost bite at all even when they wore down past the wear bar lookin like slicks and even then it still grip. they dont last as long as RS3 but the extra grip is worth it. my tire of choice for now untill something better comes out in a 200TW

That's going to depend on tire size, which track, and how hard you're actually pushing. I know a few people that can't get more than 2 hot laps before they're over heated on properly sized tires/wheels.

I personally know someone who destroyed the tires running a combo of track and autoX and I KNOW for a fact that he wasn't at his tire limits (I was only roughly 3 seconds slower than him at DDT and a good chunk of our corner speeds were identical - I was in Pilot Super Sports). Alignment plays a huge role as does your driving style.

He now runs RS3s.

I had a huge conundrum when I was shopping to replace the PSSes on my S2000 and whilst the RE71Rs sound fantastic, they just have too many pitfalls for anything other than those who run out for a quick 1-2-3 session when compared to my slow-to-start-then-go-wreck-em style. In autoX and in track, I almost always get my best times 80-100% towards the end of the day. AutoX has actually shown me to be a ridiculously consistent animal getting best times at last session 4/6 events. The other 2 events, one I coned (would've been best time if I didn't), the other I was still learning on fresh tires (less than 24 hours old). Lap sessions, I've also always established that I get PFTD at the 2nd last or last session.

The problem I find with most folks is that they don't gather as much data on themselves before finding a part that fits them. Fastest tires may be fastest for 90% of the population but if you're in the 10% outlier, guess what? You're inhibiting your own growth.

The same guy who ran RE71Rs said it was like driving on "cheat mode". I caught him multiple times on my tires and he seemed to plateau. Once he switched to the RS3s, he suddenly realized how much they were covering up his driving inaccuracies and now he's consistently quick and I strongly believe by end of the year, he should exceed his personal best at DDT.

Also, I only paid $730 for my 225/255 set whereas the RE71Rs would have cost around $900.

For those interested, Dave and Pete tested a bone-stock ND Miata club and Miata global cup car at TMP. The new Miata isn't as fast as I thought it would be, especially the global cup car that had custom BFG r-comps and multimatic dampers.

Fastest laps:

Miata club - 1:26.84
Miata global cup - 1:21.70

Either way fun video to watch.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmkMlC9Bh6k"]EPIC Mazda MX-5 Miata Track Battle - Race Car VS Street Car - YouTube[/ame]

Could be tire size. When I was chasing @Skurj, I was getting faster at the end of 15 min sessions at DDT while he was slowing down. I run 255 RS3 and he runs 225(?) RE71R. And historically, the vast majority of my fastest laps have been the very last lap of the session at DDT.

That being said, when I was chasing @86Tony at Cayuga, I didn't feel like he was dropping off even during extended sessions so ymmv. Tony is on 255 RE71R I believe.

Martyn is on 215's or 225's on stock wheels. What were Tony's times like at TMP? If he's maxing out the tires it should be in the low 21 or high 20 range.

Speaking of laptimes, what are some good timers out there that people are using?

I have 215/45-17 RE71R's on my car and it will do 1.16's on Fabi, stock suspension. The tires get about 3-4 laps really pushing them before then need a little break. I run the tires at 35psi cold and didnt really pay to much attention to pressures at the track this year.

Aim Solo DL, it's expensive but you will use it on every car going forward.

This year my fastest time was 1:23.5 with 265/275 rs3 and DTC70... but I think its way too much tire for TMP, at DDT i think its an advante but I felt soooo slow on the straights... ever since august I've had really bad brake fade/fluid boiling when I've played with different front rear pad compounds...

right now im debating whether I should go 235/40/17 NT01 or 245 RE71R for next year :/ WHat are the thoughts on sweet spot for tire width for N/A with full bolt ons and tune?

Get a 215-235 depending on your wheel. 8" - 215, 8.5" - 225, 9" - 235.

I don't have times from TMP to compare with since I haven't been there this year.

At DDT with a stock car (upgraded rad, oil cooler and brake pads, OEM tires) Car was hitting 1.49.319. Here is the layout.

Imo, our local tracks like DDT, TMP, Shanny, etc. are slow so it's better to run wider tires even with our measly 200 hp. I don't know what the optimal width is for the fastest potential lap time but it's probably somewhere between 235 and 255.

Maybe but there is a lot more to it then just running a wider tire, like suspension setup and what not. If you are on stock suspension run a narrower tire, save some money and track more. The fastest time at Fabi I have recorded with my DL was in another persons car (green BRZ, I think his name was Derrick?) he was about a second faster then my car but with wider tires and coil overs. I don't have enough data to compare between wider and narrower tires to know for sure.

DDT definitely benefits from a wider tire, but the other two (SMP full or pro) might be faster with a 225 compared to a 245. SMP is also brutally tough on tires, the extra width may or may not help with wear.

You'd really need to be logging back to back sessions on different tires to get the full picture.

Shannonville is definitely tough on tires, primarily because there is no camber built into the track and also that the asphalt is really rough. Besides that, I also think that it is a factor of how much track time you actually get there. I've been to full lapping days where you get half an hour for every hour you're there or lapping evenings and half-days are often completely open lapping. That is more time on track than I've gotten at other full lapping day events where you usually get 20 minutes on track for every hour that you're there. It's certainly the most seat time you can get for your money anyway.

Yup. My comment was assuming that the suspension is set up appropriately.

DDT is a no brainer for wider tires for sure. TMP, I feel like besides the first two straights, there's no other place to accelerate enough for skinnier tires. Shanny may benefit more from skinnier tires with the extended straights.

At the end of the day, I don't have budget to do a proper test and so I'm only speculating. With my money, I erred on the side of going too wide since it lets me stay out on track longer and will wear better.

That's a good point too. 225's might be faster on some tracks, but you'd be more likely to overheat them much faster. You might get two faster laps, then a bunch that are MUCH slower.

once you get into the track dedicated tire realm of lets say under 200tw, do different tires resist over heating noticeably better than others? Next year I plan on dropping down to a 235 or 245 tire but I'm focusing the mods on my car toward longer sessions so I'm worried now that reducing width may cause my sessions to be limited by tires. I'm not set on any tire yet but what tires have the best resistance to overheating in the re71r, R888, NT01 range?

I don't have much personal experience but the RE71r won't tolerate heat like the R888 or NT01. The NT01 are known to be a great tire in terms of heat tolerance and ultimate dry grip although I hear they are scary in the wet.

Forget the R888's exist, they tend to heat cycle out quick and lose a ton of grip after.

NT01's will definitely take a ton more heat than RE71R's.

I would give the Maxxis VR-1 a try, the closest to ideal size for us is a 255/40/17, I've heard they take 20-30 minute sessions easily, even in Atlanta heat in the middle of the summer.

We got 1:21.86 on our FRS on 245 RE71R. Still NA bolt ons + suspension + brakes. Our ultimate goal here is to get into 1:20s NA which we do not feel is out of reach

On one of our BRZs we got 1:23.75 on 225 RE71R which is stock apart from coilovers + Endless MX72 on stock calipers. From the data we collect, should be able to get into the low-mid 1:23s as is.

Would love to go for a ride along with one of the faster guys. Second time at the track and I only managed a 1:33, way slow compared to you guys haha.

Won't be at TMP, but come out to an SPDA/ATTS day at the DDT next summer and you can get some coaching as well as as many ride alongs as you can handle!

Yeah I might have to! Would be a good experience for sure :D