2017 Toyota 86..More reliable?
 

So considering that the previous generation of FR-S/BRZ has so many small issues do you think that the refresh will solve the major issues and increase reliability. The ones I hear about so frequently seems to be taillight issues, engine troubles, and squeaks/rattles.

I am considering buying a 2017 Toyota 86 next summer so I only wonder because even though its a Toyota by badge, its a Subaru at the heart so it would never truly have Toyota reliability right? Its not a Toyota engine.

I guess only time will tell.

It will probably be a bit better but I think the things you listed are blown out of proportion from being on this forum.

The engine problems were mostly fixed within the first year.

The tail light gaskets were updated during the first year.

Engine is still the weakest point but the cam adjuster problems have been remedied already as well.

For squeaks and rattles, its a sub 30k car. You cant expect it to be built like a 50k German car. Any other sub 30k Japanese or American car with a stiff (ish) suspension will have the same rattles.

One could argue that the kouki needs a year to shake off any new bugs introduced by the refresh. Just do the maintenance and use the warranty, and enjoy it.

When I got my 13 my friend at the dealership told me to wait because "the quality is shit, some cars have wires hanging out", etc. Imo they were rushed to market. I doubt that will be the case with the 17s. Ive had an engine replaced but Toyota stood by it. Its an inexpensive sports car and im happy with it.

They were on sale as 2012's in the rest of the world, North America got them a bit later and shouldn't have had any "rushed to market" issues like terrible QC (wires hanging out).

Mine is an early 2012 build date, delivered July 2012 and I haven't had any serious issues at all. Tail lights were replaced under warranty, and everything else has been routine maintenance.

This. With the array of changes comes additional potential issues.

Go get the car and drive it hard. Do maintenance and enjoy the riot of a car you bought.

I understand your point and im not knocking the car. They accomplished a lot, especially given the price point ,but there were some teething issues.

More reliable than a 2013? Maybe Yes.

More reliable than a 2014-2016? Not Really.

They are made in a state of the art assembly plant with QC controls that would amaze you. Any "wires hanging out" would never pass inspection so doubt that they left the plant that way. There is no way to make them faster than they are just to "rush them to market". It isn't some back alley shop slapping cars together. Yes some hidden issues such as leaking tail light gaskets could show up later but there would be zero visible defects.


Any wires that were loose are more likely the result of port installed options (i.e. nav systems) where they could indeed rush the job and sneak through.
Or your "friend" is full of shit.

I think they dropped the psi of the factory turbo, so the 2017 should be more reliable.

Only does like 14psi instead of 18 like before.

Yeah well, I lost a state of the art rocker arm and a state of the art main bearing, then the state of the art short block failed before they put in a state of the art long block. Shit happens

Still has the boost spikes though which you need to look out for.

HIDDEN!
Hard for a QC inspector to see that now isn't it? Wires hanging out are generally pretty visible.


So you had a bad part and it blew that does not indicate the car was rushed through production.

Do you guys think they will be more serious about putting a polished product out since its got the toyota badge now? I mean there's got to be a bit more riding on it now right. They couldn't take any chances as far as reliability with the infamous Toyota name on it. Maybe a bit more quick to fix any issues that come up considering there are new parts involved in the engine

Nothing changes because of the badging. It was always a Toyota everyplace else. They didn't make lower quality for Scion and higher for Toyota. The only difference was they had more options.

In my experience in Japan (rather extensive) the phrase "Maybe yes" means "sorry, no" and "not really" means "F*** NO!!"

Just sayin' ;)

No.

This. ^^^

It's not like they operated Scion as a completely separate entity with its own distribution channels and manufacturing. You'd be hard pressed to find a Scion buyer who didn't know it was a Toyota (heck, Scion dealerships are IN Toyota dealerships). That was always part of the Scion selling point; it's a Toyota, but with straight forward pricing (generally), less convoluted options (because there were so few), and more "youthful" styling, all of which were meant to be more approachable to younger buyers and break out of the older mindset of what a Toyota is (i.e. "my mom drives a Toyota, so why would I want to").

The Scion brand is purely a North American marketing construct. The same cars are sold as Toyota models throughout the rest of the world, they're all built in the same plants by the same workers. They just grab badges and logos from a different parts bin.

All that being said, the new 86 is still really built by Subaru, so the change in branding will have doubly no real impact on quality. Might increase quality slightly; one less box of parts (old Scion and FR-S tags) to worry about!

get a 2017 BRZ...the engine will match the logo on the bumper

From my experience Toyota was very responsive to my warranty issues. Imo the fa20 has become a mature product and the minor revisions will not be problematic.

IMO Toyota is still kind of skating along on the legendary quality reputation it enjoyed through the early '00's.

Subaru is responsible for this product construction with design and some components from the Toyota supply chain. Ultimately we are depending on Subaru quality more than Toyota- if this were breakfast, Toyota would be the eggs, Subaru the ham. One animal participated, the other was committed.

Lol maybe so but when something goes wrong it's nice to have Toyota stand behind it.

Oh, I certainly agree. If this were only available as a Subaru product, I would never have bought it. Perhaps slightly irrational but one cannot rationalize emotion- and I have a visceral negative response to many Subaru drivers in my region. Granola-eating-while-texting-clueless-driver fools.

I've had good experiences with Toyota. They're dealerships are mostly large and impersonal but that's ok by me. Get me in and out the door as fast as you want. Lol

Id rather buy a lightly used one or certified preowned from dealer than new for the fact that I can google or ft86 it up on any problems i may have. I doubt the new one will suffer the same exact problems as first gen. I am also sure they'll have problems as well. Every car does. The 350z did, the 2nd gen 350z did and 370z did. Bam.

Maybe my 13 was built on a monday? Dunno, but I don't see the unfit quality everyone else see's. Yes it makes noise but its a RACE CAR! right?

I really can't imagine the flag ship Miata being built as well or near as well as this car. I may be kiddin my self because I've never been in one but I just don't see it being much different in quality

Think of them as personality traits rather than issues and you'll be much happier.

Same for me, exactly.

The first shipment for '13's in Canada arrived May '12 and was produced in April. That's pretty early in 2012 for a 2013 model year. I believe production started Jan/Feb '12 for shipments to certain markets, so I suppose at some point it was required to identify as a 2012. By the time we got our cars they had probably made hundreds if not possibly over 1000 units, lots of time for them to smooth out the initial burps in production when they occur.

I think Japan received their first shipments a few months after North America. Perhaps they wanted to make sure they have everything worked thru for the domestic customers. Japanese are funny that way.

The 86 started manufacturing in Feb/2012, and went on sale in Japan in March/2012. It went on sale in the US in May/2012. (at least that's my recollection).

haha exactly!:lol::lol:

This is probably the wisest statement I have ever read on this forum!


https://media.giphy.com/media/jShr8wkP38XTO/giphy.gif

I placed my order the day they went on sale here in April. A month later I showed up for an event where they had an autobox demo, and I waived my right of refusal then and there for the order. A few weeks later I had my car. I think the US orders might have started a week later, except for the First 86 program (or whatever it was called).
You are probably right regards to Japan. Not sure of exact details but I seem to recall after I got my car and joined this forum, reading they were still waiting for the cars over there. It appeared to me they sent at least one or two ship loads to the US and at least one shipment to Canada before dealers there got them.
Perhaps someone from Japan can chime in if the read this.

According to this they started making 'sales' on it February 3rd.

http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/pr...12_03_28e.html

Wiki says first cars were assembled 2/2, dunno if that was first cars completed or when the final assembly line first fired up...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota...and_Production

Buddy has an NC, brother has an NB. Depends on how you define 'built as well' if you mean the quality and longevity in which things are bolted together and how all the parts hold up over time, I'd say they're bang on equal with each other. The ND looks to be on par as well if not a step up possibly.

Where the Miata takes the edge is that the powertrain seems to be designed to take all the abuse a responsible owner could ever throw at it and the double wishbone suspension design is made to be driven hard with fewer modifications than the 86's MacPherson strut/multi-link setup.

The First86 cars were delivered early in May 2012.

First US delivery was to @Pekingduck on or around 5/2/2012.

I took delivery of mine on May 11th. The ones on the West Coast were delivered a bit earlier because of ship time to Southeast Toyota on the east coast.

Regular US deliveries started on June 1st officially although some dealers may have cheated on the 30 day thing.

Well, having sold Mazda way back when the NA Miata was released, I liked the idea of getting one of the very first ones when the twins went on sale. This despite the belief of many that you should wait at least one year to get the bugs ironed out.

Nothing could ever get started if there weren't early adopters. And, so I "suffered" terribly having to have a set of water laden tall lights replaced LOL

Perhaps with some manufacturers, buying the first generation is more risky. Toyota is one company I feel comfortable with even with a first model year. If there is the need for perhaps one repair that could have been avoided waiting another year, who cares. I liked seeing people turn their heads when I drove past, not having seen one before. Where I live you need a much more expensive car to do that typically.