Two years with a Camaro, trading for BRZ
 

Two years ago, I was looking for a new fun car. I was deciding between an FRS/BRZ or a Camaro. I went with the Camaro since it cost the same and had 325 hp vs 200 hp and I like Camaros.

After two years, I have put 3000 miles on it. I don't like the car. Last summer, I bought a WRX as a daily driver, and it's amazing. I got into the Camaro after not driving it for a year (it's a summer car) and couldn't believe how it felt. It was like driving a Pinto. The thing handled horribly, couldn't get out of it's own way, and you couldn't see out of it.

I'm going to trade in the Camaro for a BRZ Limited. For the past two years, every time I have seen one on the road or in a parking lot, it has gotten my full attention.

We live near mountains in the summer and spend most of it riding motorcycles and driving on winding roads. Even though the hp isn't there, the handling is what matters more. Now, if they only took the WRX engine with the turbo and dropped it into a BRZ...

Anyway, hope you all are enjoying your cars.

Also wondering, would you wait for the 2017 or get a 2016? I want to trade the Camaro before it loses more value and don't know if it's better to trade before the 2017 comes out.

2017 for sure

You sure you would like the BRZ? If you drop the WRX engine with the turbo into a BRZ that would upset the handling and throttle response, and the revs can't hit as high. It's a totally different driving experience and requires a different driving style compare to torquey cars. I think you should try and get some BRZ seat time first before committing.

Myself I would get a 2017 BRZ with the Performance Package if handling matters more.

WRX vs BRZ
 

As a 2016 WRX owner I'd be totally disappointed if the BRZ had the WRX engine/turbo... You are directly connected to the engine with the BRZ. The WRX is nice but its acceleration feels artificial and is only fun when the turbo kicks in.

Plus, other than in a straight line, the BRZ can be just as fast or faster than the WRX. I'm fairly certain that if you live in the mountains with lots of twists you'll drive much faster and have much more fun with the BRZ :)

You're saying a Camaro can't get out of its own way, yet want to look at a brz....lol.


What year Camaro?

My wife has a 2010 RS (V6) and it's a totally different car than my FRS. The Camaro is a loaded couch on wheels that can't get out of its own way and doesn't want to and doesn't apologize for it! You can't see shit, the steering is numb, the car is a pig. But 300+ HP is nice even if the pig weighs 3800 lbs. Sometimes I like to drive it and play with the flappy paddle shifters (I installed aftermarket GT shifters the OEM shifter buttons are a joke) and the mufflers I installed sound great. But it's not a drivers car, it's a cruising car. The FRS is a drivers car 100%

The FRS has way less power, doesn't sound or look as good but every corner reminds me why I like it so much better. I'd like to race them in a quarter just to see how the FRS would do. 1000 lbs less is a big advantage. The FRS is connected to the road, it's alive and it's fun to drive and keeps me involved in the drive for more reasons than just it's being a MT. The Camaro is AT which doesn't help. I like having the camaro to drive sometimes but if I had to drive it all the time I'd hate it. The FRS could be my only car and I'd be fine with it every day.

Definitely get the 2017 with the performance package. And don't worry about increasing the power until you've had some time to drive the car and get the feel of it. If you still want to add power after that, there are plenty of options that don't require an engine swap.

If you were shopping for the Toyoyta 86, 2016 vs 2017, I would get the 2016 while you still can!!! Run to the dealership!!! haha

However since it's the BRZ, Subaru did a great job not screwing up the exterior looks so I would just get the 2017 especially since they are coming in September.

Unless you really want one now, than you could just get a 2016 :)

@Jen

2013 FR-S if budget is your biggest concern. It's essentially the same as the 2016 car.

2016 FR-S any special series if you don't mind the outgoing model but still want a new car for the best possible price.

2017 BRZ with Performance package if you want a the new model and are in for the long haul (add power in the aftermarket if you feel like you need it (Tune>Header>e85>F.I.))

Since you're accustomed to driving motorcycles, you'll be familiar with using the whole powerband to extract the most fun. 5k RPM+ is your friend. The car will do that all day. Add oil cooler if you want max engine reliability.

I'm not going to turbo it, but they need to find a way to give it some more power. The BRZ is fun for the way it handles though, not for its speed, like the WRX is more for immediate power.

The WRX is fast and handles great, but the BRZ handles even better. It's fun going 40 mph. The WRX will get me thrown in jail one day. You go to pass a truck, look down, and you are going 96 mph.

It's more the feeling. Even with 325 hp, it doesn't feel like it moves compared to the WRX. The BRZ is fun in a different way, the driving experience.

My Camaro is a 2016, V6 manual.

Exactly. Power to weight, the Camaro wins. The auto feels faster than the manual. You feel like the walls are closing in on you in the Camaro. The passenger seat is like sitting in a bunker.

Ahh yeah, the V6 Camaro is a slouch and a half (should still be faster straight line than a twin though). With the base model suspension they're pretty shoddy rides. Gotta sell the "secretary special" so they can make the cool ones though!

Power is easy on these cars. Not as easy as a turbocharged car, but still. A decent exhaust and tune will get you to ~200 whp. E85 will get you 210-230, and any number of solid FI kits if you want to go above that. Coming into the market three years behind the start is not a bad thing, because it gave the aftermarket time to get its bearings.

Hi Jen, I remember your old post, fyi they still chirp and sound funny off the showroom floor. 2017 is minor improvements imo.
Enjoy!

:cheers:

You remember me? Good memory!

After seeing that these cars are making it to 100k, and seeing some more long term feedback, I feel better about making the move.

The 2017 Limited with the upgraded brakes seems worth waiting for. Hey, the 2017 has a new fuel pump, maybe no more crickets!

As far as things that you can't see out of that actually do go fast, we still have the Challenger, so no huge loss.

1) wait for the 2017..probably
2) will a blue BRZ look ridiculous or awesome with a blue WRX, I'm down to blue or white?

White or Ice Silver. I'm partial to white ;)

My driving speeds with the BRZ were actually faster than the WRX. In the time that it takes the turbo to kick in with the WRX, you can drop a gear or two with the BRZ and no lag... Remember, the WRX may have 68 more HP, but it also weights 450+ more and is less aerodynamic.

Please don't kid yourself, the WRX doesn't have noticeable lag, you're talking about it like its a 90's Supra with a dinner plate sized turbo. Most modern turbo cars have full torque around 2k RPM.


Read through to the specs on this review and you'll see how quickly and strongly the boost comes on, definetly quicker than a twin gets to its sweet spot downshift or not.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ru-wrx-vs-sti/

I have a 2016 WRX Premium. That's precisely your problem by the way, you're focused on "specs". Yeah the boost comes on strong in about 2 seconds if you're above 2500 RPM. In a straight line there's no doubt the WRX is the winner, but we're talking real world scenarios, and frankly if anyone has trouble passing or driving faster than a Camry (as is often said) in a BRZ, they should learn how to drive a manual car properly. The WRX makes it easy because you can just floor above 2000 RPM, and the car does the work for you. The BRZ is only as fast as the driver.

And if you want specs, read this: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ransformation/

My 2007 Golf GTI DSG had a small Borg Warner K03 Sport turbocharger and the lag was definitely still there even tho full torque was at 1850rpm. It's just not that big of a deal in daily driving but you'll be kidding yourself if you can't notice it at all. BTW I can drive my manual BRZ just as fast in a straight line and much faster in a turn. :iono:

And if you google 2016 WRX Turbo lag you'll notice that everyone talks about a small lag. It's much improved but it's there... Since I traded in my BRZ I got used to it, but the first two weeks were rough because with the BRZ you shift, drop the clutch and press the gas and you're engaged, with the WRX, there's that second or two where nothing is happening...

Camaros drive liek torque school buses.

BRZ you'll miss that but handling is almost perfect. 90%-99%

Hopefully the top end isn't too bad with your new WRX. When the boost kicks in it feels like a rollercoaster but my GTI was absolutely gutless above 5000rpm, some people don't seem to notice this but I certainly did.

I was actually quite happy to reunite with NA again when I traded in for a BRZ, I just wind it out whenever I need to. Only took me a few days to re-adapt my driving style.

It's an awesome car. The power drops off significantly around 5000 RPM. But between 3000 and 5000 it's a beast and you don't have to work for the power like the BRZ. But in my humble opinion, the car is only about half as fun! I regret trading in the BRZ and Impreza for the WRX, but having 2 cars was a hassle for a single parent. I do hope to get another BRZ in the next couple years and only drive it in the warm months :)

I had a 2013 2SS 1LE. I occasionally miss the concrete shaking rumble from long tube headers and NPP. But with every corner, every curve and hard stop in my BRZ the Camaro fades from memory a little more and more.

Even though you don't know me I'm not focused on specs, I was using the article to highlight how long it takes the turbo to come on; I wouldn't have bought this car if I were only looking at specs. I just can't kid myself into thinking the me downshifting a N/A 86 is going to be faster than a WRX.

Also your article is from 2012, completely different car than the current WRX.

Went to buy a BRZ last year. Test drove a WRX and an STI for the heck of it. Came home with a WRX. The car is sick. It will get you thrown in jail. I like that Subaru so much, might as well get the other one.

I wanted a Camaro at one time, but after the GM buyout will never buy a GM product again. Glad I did as I see either a Camaro or a Mustang on every other corner in our town.(nothing against Ford,just tired of seeing so many tangs all the time too) Nice to have something different and not cookie cutter with the BRZ around here. Same reason also bought the new STI limited without wing. Had to wait along time for that option to finally come out.

I know this a numbers thing, but 1LE Camaros can do 1.01G on a skidpad, whereas the BRZ / FRS does .89G


Also the Camaro has 14 inch brembos which easily outperform the BRZ / FRS brakes.


I get it... they're heavy, but they outperform our cars in every way.

lol... agility is NOT measurable on a skidpad. It is one thing to plant 4 tires on the ground and drive rounds, but being able to move quickly, easily, rapid transitions and stuff is another thing.

Skidpad numbers are good for magazines. It does not necessarily translate into good handling... AND BALANCE, which is key.

Which is why the 1LE was named "best handling Camaro ever" and was widely regarded as a great "drivers" car.....

Seems like you are the kind of guy that like lots of hp... Going from a camaro to a brz, it will probably disappoint for you. The BRZ is slow af, but it has an amazing handling, and incredible fun car on the back roads that makes up for it.

If you appreciate a good drive on twisty roads and are willing to sacrifice HP, then go for the BRZ 2017.

"best handling camaro ever".... yes maybe, but the previous models were so numb that it was probably not that difficult to achieve.

oh and also, take 610-FT slalom if you want a better comparison.

Camaro does 44.2 mph, our cars 43.9 mph. Now THAT is outperforming right?

;)

LOL, why would you take one thing as a better comparison? And then according to you they're outperformed in that one cherry picked category anyways.


By previous model I think you mean base model or SS model 5th gens before the refresh correct?

There are certain things the twins do well, but continuing to compare these things to Camaros, mustangs, wrxs, corvettes etc... they're just not in the same category of performance stock for stock.

Skidpad performance has a lot to do with how much rubber is on a car and how good that rubber is. I think we all know the significant performance changes our cars see with wider and stickier rubber. On 215 Primacies, it's pretty impressive that our cars still manage 0.89G.

That said, both the 1LE and especially the Z28 both are faster than they have the right to be, for as big as they are. GM killed it on both of those.

The shorter the slalom the more the smaller car is favored. Vehicle width is a big factor in how fast a car can slalom. But that doesn't mean a wider car is less nimble than a narrower car.

you can get a 2014 brz for 20k all day.

A new Camaro SS 1LE is near 40k+.

The only reason 1LE got brought in to this was due to someone saying they had gotten rid of theirs. Even then, why compare a new Camaro to a used brz?


Comparing used to used, you can find a 5th gen SS for similar pricing, neither the twins, or the 5th gens retain resale value well. 1LE models more-so than normal SS vehicles.