Tarmac Zero question / issue
 

Maybe this is all useless but Ifigure I'd ask...

So, I have Tarmac Zero's on my car, and they kind of rides terrible. I kind of just accepted it, but I drove a car with Tarmac 2's and it didn't have the problems my car has.

The main problem is when the car "lands". Like, if there is a drop in the road, my car feels like it lands like it has no suspension travel. I noticed with the tarmac 2's it didn't beat me up like mine did. The place mine really kills me is over undulations, like a longer bridge. Its like riding a bucking bronco.

My car doesn't have a really low ride (I actually have it at about the same height as the car with the Tarmac 2s).

Is this "normal"? is there possibly an issue with my rear dampers? (it really seems to be the rear end having the issues not the front).

I've emailed RCE a few times about this and never really got a real answer. And I read a few times people saying these Zeros rode well, and I can't imagine if they ALL ride like this anyone would ever say that.

Just figured I would ask!

The most likely answer is that you're riding on the bump stops, possibly as a result of setting the car too low. Saying "about" the same height as the T2 doesn't impart much confidence - do you have ride height measurements, or did you just guess? You might be lower than you think.

You can do the zip tie test to see if you're riding on the bump stops. Put a zip tie onto the bottom of the shock shaft and drive around for a bit, then check the position of the zip tie. That'll tell you how much of the shock travel you're using. If the zip tie is up into the bump stop, you don't have enough travel.

I drove an FRS once that was too low in the rear and it's exactly as you're describing it - hit the right sequence of bumps and the rear is a bucking bronco.

My T0's are certainly stiff, but they're paired with MPSS which have a really stiff side wall for a daily driver. I got my ride quality to a decent level by playing with the tire pressures. I ended up at 30 psi all around.

Saying your ride height is similar to a previous setup doesn't tell us anything, you need to measure either from the spring perch to the strut bolt or from the middle of the wheel to the top of the fender. Or even just post a pic of the car so we can see how low it is.

You can adjust the collar an inch, and have less than that of actual ride height change. Parked next to each other on a flat parking lot isn't even indicative of actual ride height, (differences in tire sizes, offset, lips, etc,) can all make it hard to tell which car is doing what.

Do the zip tie test, and email RCE and ask how much space between the bottom of the strut body, and the bottom of the collar there should be. Measure. :)

OK, well the "about" I guess is not the right thing to say, I measured the cars in the same garage spot hub center to fender lip. I'll double check but they were within an 1/8th of an inch last time I checked.

I attached two pics of the current rear end ride height. I don't think its that low at all?

And Yeah i guess I need to ziptie test, just wondering what other people were experiencing, just wanna figure out what's up.

I have PSS but his car had Rivals, I would guess his Rivals ride harder than my PSS?

No idea. I've never tried Rivals. Sorry

That looks pretty damn low to me. I'm guessing, but that looks like it's down about 2-2.5 inches to me.

I think you might be looking at things wrong. If it was that low it would be tucking tire, not have an inch of space between the tire and fender. From my measurements from stock to this, its less than 1.5". I measured center hub to fender before, after, and after a day or two of driving.

To get it this high, it actually feels like there is a LOT of preload in the coilover.

Maybe it's the perspective of the picture that's throwing me off.

Huh? That looks like 1" lower than stock... maybe a little bit more...

ok. :thumbsup:

I've got HKS Hipermax 4 GTs and I have similar complaints with them and I'm only ~1 inch lower than stock. They are fine over regular bumps and cracks but big bumps or dips in the road like sunken manhole covers and things are extremely jarring. It's fine when the front wheels go over them but when the rear wheels go over them, I can feel my teeth vibrate it's so jarring. Mine have damping adjustment so I set them to 5 clicks from full soft in the rear which has helped but I find this makes the rear really bouncy and still not as comfortable as I'd like.

I'm going to have the car up on jack stands this weekend to replace my broken front end links and I might take a closer look at the rear suspension to see if I can identify the source of the problem.

3 possible things going on:
1. Bump stops are engaging making the suspension stiffer than the rates would suggest, either raise the car up, cut up/shorten the bumpstops, or maybe find softer ones to swap in.
2. Something isn't right, either the dampers, springs, or assembly isn't as it should be, likely impossible to diagnose for the average person, the only cheap way to find out is find someone with a similar setup and go for a ride.
3. Everything is fine, that's how the setup is supposed to work and it's just not a good match for what you want.

Good luck.

when people say that a coilover rides "well" it will not be what you think it is. one person will have a different standard than someone else.

as for your problem, it sounds like you just are not used to the T0's and it is too stiff for you. the T2's probably rode better because they are two way adjustable and the owner probably adjusted them to a comfortable setting.

did you get the upgraded springs when buying the T0's or just the softer ones that it comes with?

From that picture, I see no issue with ride height. I can't imagine that bottoming out, unless you go off roading haha.
Did you get your T0s new? Just to make sure they aren't broken. Who installed them?

Yes it would be useful to know if they were new or used. I had T0's that rode great until the fronts started making this weird knocking sound, and the ride progressively got worse and worse. I ended up driving on them for a year and they were absolutely brutal. When I finally pulled them to send them for a rebuild, the fronts had ZERO damping. I could push the piston rod all the way to the bottom with minimal force and very quickly.

So in short, if they're blown they'll ride terrible.

I upgraded to Tarmac 2's, and while they're stiffer, they're way more comfortable than blown shocks.

I've talked with RCE for a while on the phone, and we are going to do some experimenting to see what's up.

Worse comes to worse maybe I'll ask my friend to get someone at his company to dyno them, haha. I am trying to get them to make dampers for me anyway.

The Tarmac 2's are pretty stiffly set up to work with his Rivals I believe (it is my dad's car).

They were new, I installed them.

Not the first time I've installed coilovers or shocks or anything, had a few Miatas I worked on in the past (ran Koni's on most, but one had Tein Flex with uprated springs, rode great).

Interesting you post this as I have KWv1 that the T0s are based on (revalved by RCE apparently) and I have the same complaint. In a lot of ways they're very good; the handling is much sharper and they're relatively soft in that you can feel a fair amount of roll in the car. But you do feel the big hits, and it often feels like you're being bashed around in the car. I'm certain it's not bottoming out (I'm about 1" lowered too); it's that initial compression.

I have Bridgestone RE002s and they're very stiff tyres. The ride was still quite harsh on standard suspension with these tyres so I'm sure that's a factor.

I suspect it's simply a case of this is how they're designed. You can't trust internet opinions on coilovers because one person's "as stock" is another person's "OMFG!". With hindsight I wish I'd spent the extra for the adjustable KWv3s because then at least I'd be able to tweak the settings; the one size fits all approach is always going to disappoint some people.