First Oil Change. Which is most important, Time or Mileage?
 

Bought my FR-S mid March. I am confident it had been at the dealership since December. I now have 3000 miles on it (750 miles/month). Should I still hold to that 7500 mile first oil change or 6 month change? Thanks for any insight.

Oh, I this case, I'd suggest you go with the mileage figure. The oil just sitting in a new car doesn't really "age"...... not so much at least.

(or 6 months after it had been put into service ...... whichever comes first)


humfrz

It isn't an either or option. Whichever ones comes up first is when you have to do it. Looks like your months will be up before your milage so do it then to maintain warremty.

I am curious about this too since I am a similar situation.

I had 3900 on mine when I got it on 4/15 and on 12/15, I had 7000 or only 2000 miles more, so I got the 1st one a bit early just to make sure it would be every year. I will only put roughly 4000 a year on the car and plan on doing the oil every year so I don't know where that put me with warranty but I assume they don't think I'm coming in every 6 months and only 2000 miles later to do a change.

Some people do the first change early. I only did mine a little early as far as mileage since they gave me the first couple changes free. I always have used synthetic and changed at 3500 miles in my cars even if it wasn't needed. I think this time around and with the miles I put every 4000 and once a year is enough.

Tcoat, is that a warranty killer for going past the 6 months until it hit 7k? My dealer didn't mention anything and seemed like it was ok.

The requirement is time or milage whichever comes first. The dealer could deny you warranty coverage if you didn't drive it at all and went one day over the 6 months. Timed oil changes are ludicrous in this day and age since synthetics don't break down over time but that unfortunately would not win you the argument if denied. With my milage I have to get my oil changed about every two months just to maintain warranty. The stuff looks as good coming out as it did going in but I still have to change it. If I changed it as often as you I would have to do that t monthly.

I don't know how anyone could possibly get 7K out of an oil change. I pushed my last fill with Amsoil signature series for 4K before I could no longer stand the noise/feel.

I get about 3K using Mobile-1.

I thought the car (engine) seemed to be a tad bit quieter and less "shaky" when idle after I changed the oil over the weekend.

Really thought it was in my head.. and butt lol

Nope. That's real. Sounds/feels the same when it's getting low. A half quart below full is too much for me to handle. Not just this engine. All wet sumps pretty much respond the same way.

The extra vibration doesn't necessarily mean anything bad but it just bugs me knowing the cause.

So if I got my first oil change at 8 months after I bought it and mileage was 7000 and now I am at 8900 miles(1900 miles since the last change) and it is 7 months now since then, I should "find" my two receipts with the oil and filter purchase? At 360 miles per month, it seems I need to get some receipts in hand in case these bozos try to deny a claim.

Yep but at 360 miles a month the odds of having a claim go way down anyway.

I push mine to the last mile and ant say I ever noticed any difference. Hell, with the synthetics you should be able to go 20k plus without a change.

Dunno what to say. I don't need a UOA to tell me when to change it. The difference is dramatic.

The engine feels hilariously smoother even after 4500 miles and an oil change

I give up ...... what is a "UOA" ....... ?????? :confused0068:


humfrz

Oh, sorry. Used Oil Analysis

Used oil analysis like what people do with blackstone labs and such. They usually do it every oil change and then blackstone will tell you whats in the oil on a microscopic/molecular level and what that means for the wear of the engine and whether or not your intervals are alright

I'm in the "every 3000 miles" camp, too. Synthetic oil doesn't break down as fast as dino oil, but it still gets dirty. An 80$ oil change (60$ if you do it yourself.... the equivalent of two tanks of gas..) is REALLY cheap insurance. My last five cars all went well over 250K miles w/ virtually no engine problems, and I'm pretty sure that regular oil and filter changes had a LOT to do with it. W/out exception, I had to retire each of those five due to salt damage, and nothing else. Never needed to replace a transmission or clutch either (with the exception of our current MB which was SOLD to me w/ a bad transmission.. long, sad story). Manufacturers have a vested interest in selling new cars, so I have a hard time accepting their 12,500 or 7,500 oil change interval recommendation... or whatever it is on the twins.

Changing your oil is sort of like furling a mainsail.. if you're asking yourself if you should change it (furl it), it's probably already past the time to do it. Just change it. It certainly won't hurt, it doesn't cost that much, and at the very least you'll feel better.

Barry

Well, now, I go along with the Tcoat theory here.

I just don't see how an engine could run noticeably smoother with "new" oil, compared to the same engine with "7,000 mile old" oil in it.

Normally, I would say, that if you feel that, it's all in your head, HOWEVER, I will reserve my opinion and run check the next time I have my oil changed.

Let's see I'll need a vibro-meter.

Or, maybe a wine glass on the hood and a slow motion video camera..... :)


humfrz

I'm all in for mileage, modern oil doesn't really age. The only caveat is that gas in the oil over an extended period of time supposedly reduces it's life, that will happen if the car sees a lot of short trips and doesn't get up to temperature often enough to evaporate it out of the oil. But @Tcoat is right, for keeping warranty do the change on time.

No problems with the 7.5k mile interval, I'm with @humfrz the oil change = smoother engine is good old placebo.

And @Ultramaroon I never fill to the top mark, and keep it between the bottom and mid, old racecar habits die hard.
:P

:burnrubber:

I think there is a lot of this working here ....... ;)


humfrz

To anyone that runs E85 regularly during the summer as I do:


You have to change your oil around every 3000-4000 you'll notice how bad the oil smells, E85 wreaks havoc on the detergents in the oil and it breaks down way quicker than it normally does. Also with E85 making sure the engine is at operating temp before bagging on it is super important as @strat61caster said pertaining to gasoline.

My last 4 cars all went 350k to 400k with oil cahanges pushed to the last minute. Not one of them ever had a single engine issue and they were Mitsubishies. I have never once changed transmission oil in a car and have also never replied a tranny or clutch.
I think many many people over change fluids based on the archaic schedules that were required with old lubricants. There are many experts that agree.
Dealers also have a vested interest in getting people to pay for oil changes so if anything they would be expected to say do it more often than not.

I hear you guys. I posted knowing full well I'd get called out but I promise you I push it until I can't take feeling the added vibration from the engine, either in miles used or in the level. Yes, I am that tuned into the changes.

@Tcoat, one thing I just remembered is that on my last car I took to changing the filter every few thousand miles and just topping off the oil. I haven't been doing that because this engine is still under warranty and I've been keeping records. Some of the head loss is due to reduced flow through the filter.

Just do what feels right as long as it's within the interval specified in the owner's manual.

I just scheduled my first oil change even though I have only had the car for a couple of months. It'll be at 3000 miles. Future changes I'll do at 5000, but this first one I want out of the way.

I put a lot of miles on my car & I want to use all 5 of the free oil changes in the first 2 years. This 7500 mile thing seems a little wrong to me. Not so much because of the oil, but the filter needs to be changed at earlier intervals IMHO.

I think some here say that the dealers are refusing to do these early oil changes.

Not sure on this myself. My honda i always done about 5,000 miles. I drive it pretty hard for what it is and never burned more than half a quart between changes so i never even checked it anymore. I been running mobil 1 for a while and thought i just extend my interval to 1 year since the bottle says something like 15,000 miles and i do like 10-12.

Anyway after 8 months i got a low engine oil light. So i just stick to 5,000 now and havent got the light since and havent been burning excessive oil either. Not sure what to make of it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Brz i track so i change it quite a bit with motul 300v. Probably more often than i should.

Just got done painfully extracting the info "every 1 year or 7500, whichever comes first" from my dealer(Sun Toyota).
Every person I talked to said something different....6 months, 1 year, 7500 miles, 10 miles until the final answer was the 1 yr/7500 mi.
In our owners manual, it just says every 7500 miles or half that for severe duty and nothing about time intervals.

I split the difference and shoot for 5k. I do a fair mix of highway and non-highway driving, so I figure its not heavy duty, but not lighter, mostly highway duty. That and its easier to calculate, because I'm lazy. 3k miles is just too early and a waste of money, IMO.

Assuming you're talking 350k-400k kilometers, then we're talking about the same lifespan, and I don't doubt you for a second. My point isn't that changing your oil every 3000 miles is a necessity, it's that it isn't a very expensive thing to do and it sure can't hurt. In my experience, it helps. The cars I neglected in my youth (a Datsun B210, a '73 Olds Delta 88, and a Plymouth Colt, and a Plymouth Colt Vista (the last two were Mitsubishis, too, as were the cars T cited) all died early engine-related deaths (in miles, 90K, 130K, 95k, and 120k, respectively). I used to go up to 15k miles between changes because I was lazy and broke at times. Granted, they were all less-than-gently-used at the time I acquired them, too, except for the Colt Vista; the early demises may not necessarily be linked to my poor maintenance schedules. However, since then, I've been very careful with oil changes and it's paid off tremendously. Heck, maybe it's just coincidence, but I kind of doubt it. My two pro mechanic friends (one's the head mechanic at a very respected shop in the area, and the other's an independent European specialist.. the local Mercedes dealership calls HIM when they can't figure something out), both absolulute top notch guys in their field, are very adamant about 3000 mile oil changes. I believe them.

No arguments, T... I don't know enough personally to state scientific and physical reasons for my opinion. Just going by personal experience and people I know and trust. For me, frequent oil changes are worth it rather than saving $60 and hoping/trusting that it doesn't matter. That's all. If your experience is different and what you do works for you, there's certainly no reason for you to change either.

Best,

Barry

Tcoat... I got thinking some more. Another possible explanation is that you drive a LOT. That's good for a car. Few people put on the miles you do. 400K kilometers over 5-8 years is a lot different than, say, 200k miles over 30 years. Up until last year, my cars were made in 1981, 1988, 1993, and 1999. The '93 is gone now, as is the '99. The '81 Rabbit is off the road waiting for strut tower reconstruction, and the '88 560SL is about to go back on the road after sitting for seven months (and a grueling day in the garage yesterday). Those two get maybe 5000 miles a year, my main car (now the FR-S) gets about 15k a year, and my wife's SUV gets about 8K (all miles). Given the sporadic use (especially compared to your driving schedule), frequent short trips, and very infrequent long road trips for anything other than the FR-S (previously, the '93 325i), the 3000 mile oil change intervals make an increasing amount of sense. Your frequent long hauls probably contribute a great deal to your ability to stretch your oil change intervals.

Just thinkin' out loud..

Barry

I wish the dealership would learn to do that... sigh. The capacity is 5.5 quarts for the twins, and they put in 6 quarts both times I've had them do it; well OVER the top mark on the dipstick.

Can't hurt, true, but if you change every 3k miles (assuming 225,000 mile car lifetime) you'll make 75 oil changes, which at $60/change totals out to $4500. If you do 5k miles, which is still well within the recommended interval, the numbers over the same vehicle lifetime comes out to $2500. Yes, we are talking over multiple years of car life, but thats enough of a difference that I would say that it is actually a lot more expensive to do it every 3k than every 5k.

Second point, your engine-related deaths for sure were due to your "up to 15k" change interval.

Lastly, I'm willing to bet your mechanic buddies don't pay for oil changes. So of course they would recommend the most aggressive interval.

Yup,mine did when I was at about 5k.

I find it funny that for a crowd that swears by the owner's manual,this is one thing that they completely refuse to abide by. Obviously you should check you oil on a somewhat regular basis,depending on driving habits,but changing oil every 3k miles on this car is just throwing money away.

I remember when I bought my car,I would check the oil every once in a while,and every time,it was as golden as when I bought it.Even well after the mythical 3k miles,it looked like it was just changed the day before.Eventually,I change it at 7k because of the dealer sending me a notice,plus I had a coupon which came out to about $48.

The manual actually specifies 5.8 not 5.5

No arguments here on the math. 12K, 7.5K, 5k, 3K... the more frequently you do it, the more money you spend on oil changes. That's obvious. Finding the cost vs. return point based on your car and driving habits is the crux of the whole issue. For me, I aim for 3K. If I go a bit over, I don't worry. $2000 saved over what, for me, would be about 12-13 years, would be about $160/yr... less than what a lot of folks pay every month for cable. For me, it's worth it. That's all.

Well, not much in life is "for sure," but it's very likely it was a major contributing factor. Again, point granted. 15k, however, isn't much longer than the 12k that some car manufacturers and synthetic oil producers are recommending. I wasn't using synthetic back then, of course. Synthetic or dino, dirt is dirt, and today's engines are typically manufactured with much tighter tolerances than those of yesteryear... hence the increasing usage of lower viscosity oils. Heck, it's getting hard to even find 10w40 anymore.[/QUOTE]

You'd lose that bet. One's an independent, i.e., he is the owner and sole employee; who do you think buys the stuff in his garage? The other may get a break, but he buys all his parts, including maintenance supplies, and keeps a fully equipped two-bay garage on his own property for maintaining his own vehicles. Being an employee doesn't give you a license to steal from your employer, and both of my friends are unfailingly honest.

This is the internet. Opinions vary. Some are fact-based, some are emotion-based, and some are just stupid and/or irrational. Heck, there's probably at least a little of all of those in most opinions and I'm more than willing to admit there are in mine. I'm not suggesting I'm "right" and that aiming for 3000 mile oil changes is THE only thing to do. For me and my vehicles, it works and I'm willing to pay the extra few bucks a year. For others, maybe not. That's fine. I'm not arguing that point. You kind of struck a nerve with the insinuation that two excellent mechanics who would have no vested interest in getting me to change my oil frequently (they don't profit by it.. I buy my own stuff and change my own oil except for the FR-S/warranty reasons mentioned earlier in the thread) somehow get free oil changes because they're mechanics. Huh? I'm a musician.. do I get a free grand piano? Can I take the one home at the concert hall I occasionally play in?

Maybe I read too much into that.. sorry.. :)

Barry

Thanks. I was going by a post I had read on this forum (another thread, months ago) and hadn't checked the manual since I've had the dealer do them so far. I'm surprised, though.. they really overfilled it both times, more than 2/10 of a quart would seem to account for. Sorry about repeating bad info.. thanks again.

Barry

I usually drive mine 1-2 times / week so i usually go with mileage but i change oil once a year at least. if you feel this is right then do it. it's your money and time. better to change often than not. i change oil for all my cars between 7000 - 7500 mileage inverval with synthetic oil like mobil 1. i tried Pennzoil Ultra and couldnt tell damm difference and it was little more expensive than mobil 1 so i am sticking with mobil 1 now

Same here.

Why so many miles?

Now THAT's funny. If you do a used oil analysis, you'll see that regular Mobil 1 (not to be confused with Mobil, Alabama) can do well over 6k miles and Amsoil SS and M1 EP can go much farther.

Yes, you should probably the manufacturers recommendation while under warranty (although ask a dealer if they'll change the oil in a car that sat on their lot for a year), but to change it based in taste, feel, color, odor, engine sound, etc. is not based on fact.

There are plenty of uoa's on this forum and I'd recommend looking through them. Some have gone to 10k miles. Of course, you need to make sure your filter can last as long as the oil. If it's OEM, it can easily handle 6-7.5k miles.