Subaru trying to deny my warranty please help!
 

Moderators: I don't mean to SPAM this topic I am just not sure exactly where to post it and feel having it in numerous areas of the forums will help get the most feedback. Thank you!


Hey there FT86 family,

Admittedly, I have been holding back from writing this because I feel like an idiot for even finding myself in this predicament and more so, because I undoubtedly expect some people to doubt my story that I know as truth. Not to mention, the internet is full of those who take joy in watching others pitfalls. Anyways, here it goes. I am looking for any help, support, advice, or knowledge that can help me get out of this situation as intact as possible. I have been in major stress since Monday and figure it’s worth taking a shot seeing what type of responses this post will garner.


I bought a 2016 BRZ Series.Hyperblue for 2,000 off MSRP from Subaru of Glendale with 193 miles on it. I was told the car would still maintain all factory and manufacturer warranties (which still seems to be the case). However, I was sold the car as used. I was told the car was an unwind vehicle and while being asked to keep this information quiet, the car was purchased by a salesman in order to hit the monthly sales quota and then unwound. Unfortunately, upon purchasing the car something with this story seemed to be shifty as from what I know now, that all may be true but there also seems to be an owner who purchased the car in late January. Anyways, I dismissed it because the car ran perfectly and rest assured, I had manufacturer warranties if anything was seriously wrong. With that said, I had driven the car with absolutely no issues for three months until I took the car to be tinted and upon picking up my car, the car failed to start. I tried everything from forum searching, to attempting to jump start the car, and to no avail, nothing worked. The vehicle had full electricity from alarms, stereo, lights, etc. However, the engine would not turn over (crank). The steering wheel was locked and I was being shown a blinking immobilizer light on my cluster. In conjunction with this, when I would press on the clutch it would recognize my key fob was in range (per the light on the cluster). Finally, I gave up and had the car towed to Puente Hills Subaru {PHS} (Subaru Roadside wouldn’t assist so Geico was my only option and they towed the car to the nearest dealer).


From this point, I initially received a call from a service advisor at PHS stating that my ECU was producing readings (ignition count, etc.) with all values indicating “0”. He then told me he had not seen anything like this and that despite the unusual circumstance he would keep “prodding”. However, before he let me go he asked if I had ever “tuned or flashed” my car. I told him no because to my knowledge the vehicle never had been. I know at the very least I for sure did nothing of the sort. The next day I received a call from the Service Manager at PHS asking me for a full detailed history of the car and I gladly obliged telling him everything from the time I bought it up until it arrived on their lot. At that point, he told me he noticed the tint stickers saying the windows should not be rolled down and I confirmed the car head been tinted the day it stopped working. He then told me either I or the tint shop was being dishonest (insinuating I was lying) and that according to him my car had been “flashed or tuned” with a “2015 STi profile using a COBB Accessport”. He then proceeded to tell me that was the reason my car would not start because the ECU was locked up with a profile it didn’t recognize. After staunchly denying his allegations, he told me he had already spoken with a Subaru of America technician to have my car flagged as modified for this alleged “flash or tune”. He then told me I had two options, to find this accessport that my car was married to, or pay for a new ECU as my warranty would be denied for this repair and more than likely any other future engine or powertrain problems should they arise.


I then went to the place where my car was tinted and sat with the owner for upwards of an hour and a half watching surveillance footage of my car from the time I dropped it off to the moment the car was towed away. During this time, I could find no time where foul play could be insinuated. Moreover, I called the service manager who wrongly accused me and told him what I was currently doing and that I would like some proof of his alleged claims. He told me that he could do so as soon as I decided to pay for the service or towed the car off of their lot. He then told me he had “9 minutes to get to a meeting across the street” the moment myself or the owner of the tint shop wanted to speak with him. All he did was reaffirm his allegations that my car was tuned with the aforementioned “2015 STi profile using the COBB accessport”. He also claimed that this would have had to been done to the car right before it’s mechanical/electrical failure based on his ECU readings printout of all zero’s for the values listed. Later in the day, the service manager called me to tell me that he was mistaken in his allegations regarding the “2015 STi profile/COBB Accessport” but that he remained steadfast in his claims that my car was “tuned or flashed” but that upon further research with a Subaru of America technician my car was producing these zero readings with the profile of a 2015 BRZ and that the calibration ID’s and numbers were not matching the VIN of the vehicle. He then told me he found two previous owners on the history of the car prior to me (an owner who originally purchased the car in late January, and “one of those Glendale names” (WOW prejudice much?!?!). I told him I had no idea and never did anything he was claiming. He told me frankly it didn’t matter what I was claiming because he had proof saying otherwise and regardless of whether or not I did it, the “tune/flash” whenever it occurred would still allow denial of my warranty repair and a “flagging” of my vehicle for future servicing needs. I then was asked by the same guy to deliver my second key as he was going to try and make the car operate/run with the current profile system of a 2015 BRZ. I then obliged and gave him the key and during my time there he showed me a printout of my vehicle and readings with values of “0” while also showing me what it would otherwise look like by comparing my readings with other customer’s readings of the day. He even went so far to tell me that he had seen so many people come in pleading for mercy and bailout and that Subaru of America would even sometimes provide up to 75% of the repair costs if they would just come clean on the alleged modifications. I told him I had nothing to come clean about because I honestly did nothing to the vehicle. He then told me he would be rich if he had a dime for every time someone lied to his face about modifying their vehicle. He then told me he would try his best to get the car working on its current situation but couldn’t guarantee me anything because of the alleged “tune/flash”.


I then opened up a case with Subaru of America detailing the aforementioned events for the gross lack of professionalism, wrongful persecution despite my staunch denial of his allegations, amongst many other issues. I was then told they would look into the matter and within the next day I received a call from the Service Manager asking if his conversation with a Subaru of America regarding my displeasure of the case was accurate and I told him yes. He then told me to come pick my car up and tow it away indicating he was refusing service to my car from here on out. I called SoA and they told me they gave absolutely no directive for such measures to refuse service but that all authorized Subaru Retailers were independently owned and could do as they wished regarding service but that they would note this on my case and further investigate. The story goes on and on but rather than elaborate on an already longer series of events than most will even read through, as it currently stands my car is still in PHS’s service lot and starting next week SoA will be sending a warranty/district rep to inspect and investigate all the findings and determine if whether or not my car will be covered by warranty for this repair and going forward if indeed the Service Manager’s allegations are true.


In short, I am wondering if any of you who have stuck around long enough to read this would have any idea if any of his allegations are even possible, if you have any advice to save me from what seems to be the inevitable consequences for something I did not do, or any other further information/comments.


Thank you so much,


Jordan

Some electrics work but it won't crank, sounds like a flat battery to me.

Hmmm

Their a lot of misinformation and BS here

AFAIK

Cobb do not tune BRZ platform nor does the access port support the brz ecu

The BRZ ecu is different from both the WRX and WRX STI ecu

If you power off the ECU completly (remove battery connection or flat battery) then all learned parameters are lost, and all the ecu counters for DTC codes and timers are set to zero this is normal and will not stop car from starting.

It likely the tinting place removed battery to stop windows jumping up/down when the opened /closed doors.

The dealer should be talking about the ECU checksum or CVN if they reckon its been tuned. And comparing it with a stock tune of same calid.

All the BRZ or 86 tunes for a year model are all the same their is no STI or TRD "tune" for these cars.

As wayno said it likely just a flat battery or some imobiliser issue.

does the key symbol on dash go green when key fob is in car and start button pushed.

Someone is bending the truth here.

In the unlikely event it isa actually tuned if you bought it from a reputable dealer they should sort the problem.

Thank you for the input I definitely appreciate just hearing more about knowledge I wouldn't otherwise have with these cars. The green key symbol would only light up when I pushed the clutch in. It may have stayed on when the car was in ACC mode but I can't recall for sure.

If the key symbol goes green it indicates the car imobiliser has read the key fob code sucessfully.

The clutch must be depressed for vehicle to start. If the clutch switch has failed then vehicle will not start.

check the battery volts with lights on should be minimum of 12v under load

might just be flat of stuffed battery or loose battery terminal.

I will definitely give this a try. Thank you!

Subaru of America are horrible. When the engine in my 2012 STi blew the #4 cylinder (like they all do), I pretty much got the same treatment. Claimed I tuned the car, this and that. They just love to claim a car is tuned and dismiss warranty work. I would get a lawyer who specializes in Magnuson-Moss law and force SoA to prove the vehicle was tuned in the manner that they describe.

Honestly, I can't believe Subaru puts out cars that are so poorly programmed. I still remember the first time I rode in a friend's WRX. I thought there was something significantly wrong with it. He said something like, "No, they all hesitate like that. You just need to flash it and it will drive properly." Just amazing.

I think sometime suggested this in one of your other threads, but try turning the steering wheel a touch so its not hard against the lock and then starting it.

C

@KendallH @Pat Believe me I now know the trouble of Subaru. Honestly, I came into this thinking it was such a great brand and make amazing cars (I've always liked the blob eye and hawkeye STi's) but after finding out what I did now, I wish I would've bought an FR-S. Scion and thereby, Toyota are fantastic in service and care as I can say from my previous tC. I am slowly finding out the mess that is Subaru. Dealers are independently owned so SoA has no control over them, Subaru Roadside is just a contractor doing the service, they are not directly associated with SoA, and SoA because they are truly independent from the other arms of the Subaru name, are slow and generally careless in their effort to figure out what is going on. I honestly wish I could sell my HyperBlue just to come out even somewhat even. If I could do it all over again I would hop into an FR-S just for the sake of getting quality service by Toyota.
@cjd Thanks, yea someone mentioned that and when it wouldn't start there was a video that made it seem like a common problem but despite me turning the wheel and everything else nothing would make it start or even crank.

It's possible the ecu was corrupted/failed. Super unlikely, but possible. If you end up being denied warranty get an ecu off the forum for $400 and call it a day. No need to pay Subaru for a brand new one.

A past owner could have tuned it and "voided" your warranty and Subaru could possibly deny warranty for that but it would be almost impossible for that to cause this current problem. I just had a very similar problem with a Toyota dealer over cam codes. Turned out a bearing slipped, not my tune being too powerful for the cams to keep up. Good luck

I wouldn't get all misty eyed about the great service you get from Toyota dealerships. My FR-S ended up needing the ECU replaced and the dealership from where I had purchased the car from refused to do the work under warranty because I had OFH installed. Fortunately the car was still drivable and another dealer said that as long as the problem was not due to the headers they would look after me.

In my experience once you find a dealership/garage/mechanic you trust, stick with them.

@Ashikabi You seem to be more knowledgeable about this than I, he tried to tell me that the ECU producing values of '0" indicated the car would have just been flashed. Is there anything I can do to prove my point that it's anything but a tune or flash. What has me perplexed is he is stating it's showing 2015 BRZ calibration numbers and ID's. Is that even possible from a tune? I don't know the slightest bit about tuning or flashing.

@Aussie I understand and believe me I should have gone back to say I have yet to encounter an outstanding dealer. Toyota indeed showed their incompetence more than once but I just never encountered such poor service and an absolute careless approach to customer satisfaction. The fact that I've been told I am being dishonest, otherwise insinuating I am a liar is preposterous and completely unprofessional.

Unfortunately I don't know much more than you. You could get a tuners opinion but Subaru won't give a shit cuz they are the "experts". Maybe if you took them to court but obviously we don't want to fuss with that. It seems very unlikely that you would have a flash from the wrong year. Other than they are probably lying to you and there likely is nothing you can do I can't offer much help

I understand well nonetheless I appreciate your time just even reading my incredibly long story up to this point.

I had an idea. Could the ECU have been replaced with the wrong model years ECU? Maybe it wasn't flashed but the whole unit replaced(which would then have the wrong flash on it). Is there a vin or post number that could be matched to your cars VIN?

I would refuse any payments to the current subaru shop you are at. Currently you are at the mercy of the rep theyre sending out. If the rep from SoA provides you with warranty coverage, get that baby towed to another shop and never go back. If they deny you the warranty I would immediately get my car towed back home and figure out what you are going to do from there. DO NOT let the current douche working on your car continue to work on your car. Refuse any payments and tell them to see you in court.

If this was the case why would it all of a sudden stop working out of no where? Wouldnt this show up on a car fax if it was done by any reputable shop?

I don't know... really that's the weird part is why did it happen suddenly ? Op mentioned looking at security footage for someone flashing the car, what about a quick ecu swap on the complete other side of the vehicle? I'm pretty stumped, it was just one tiny clue I thought he could check

The thing is a Cobb ap shouldn't work at all. The device has to pair with a car and once it's paired it can't be used on another vehicle is my understanding. The access port is very persnickety from my experience. Makes you wonder if for some reason a wire or something got cut or crimped during the tint installation. Idk what they did to install the tint. Maybe car died while tinting and it's something as simple as a bad battery. What I don't get is why the shop doesn't just slap a new battery in it and reset the Ecu and go from there. The whole 2015 Wrx tune is bull crap IMO

@tofurun You are 100% with me on that one. I won't be trusting them to do anything further with the car. Believe me, I am already worried about them trying to exact revenge because I opened up a case with SoA. I know this is clear paranoia but a part of me says if my car didn't have a tune prior to entering the dealer, it sure does now. Again, I know that sounds preposterous but I just don't trust the dealer especially after I was called a liar despite me going through all I've done in the last week to say otherwise. As for the COBB stuff, the service manager called me later in the same day to say he was inaccurate and upon speaking with a SoA technician about the readings, it was a 2015 BRZ profile and that the calibration ID/numbers were off which is why he still claims the car was "tuned/flashed"

@Ashikabi Thank you for the suggestion. I mean I guess it could be possible but I doubt the car was really ever tampered with. I bought it with a 193 miles as used. Who really goes and purchases a tune or tuning equipment with the car that new? I still believe the dealer did a half assed diagnosis. As for the tint, all that was done is my doors were left opened as the tint was being done. they did something with where the door latches were that the owner described as them disabling the auto window roll down when we open our doors. From that point everything looked on point. They drove the car out of the bay to a parking spot with the doors ajar as to not close anything. They then had a worker go around and clean up any solution residue etc on the car but that was it. It is an extremely reputable shop that has 5 stars on yelp and I have used them before and others I know have with zero issues. Nonetheless I appreciate the suggestion

Officially out of ideas

I wouldn't look into any of these bizarre theories until you try a new fully charged battery. It won't attempt to crank on half arsed voltage.

Speaking of wild theories....

Did you actually see the car being driven out of the bay at the tint place? If you weren't there they could have pushed it out. Look around and see if one of the employees there has the same car as you. <tin foil hat time> It's possible one of the employees had a flash go bad, brick their ECU and they did the ole' switcharoo and you ended up with the brick.

If you drove it in to the tint place and the car worked then went to start it up and it didn't- the tint place is liable for the repair.

This is pretty much what I was suggesting. It's just such a weird occurrence I think all possible theories have to be pretty wild. What would happen if they hooked up the battery backwards? Is that even possible?

At no point in this saga have I seen any indication that the battery power was checked. The car is known to have sat for hours (if not a whole day) with the doors open which means lights were on.


"The vehicle had full electricity from alarms, stereo, lights, etc. However, the engine would not turn over (crank)." Has low battery written all over it.


Car won't start? Step one, check battery power.

Can you PLEAAAAASE go hook the car up to a voltmeter? RIGHT NOW? I wanna know!

I've actually had this fail, battery read 12 volts but wouldn't crank. I'd suggest new battery all together

Strange. I'd imagine that something else was also wrong if it wouldn't crank with 12 volts.

You weren't using a harbor freight multimeter were you?

My friend had one that he used for a while and he thought he just didn't understand electricity well because he could never get his installs to work out quite right. Turns out his HF meter was reading +/-3 volts. Brought my Fluke over and he was simultaneously annoyed and relieved lol.

It's a craftsman. Not top of the line but I expect better than harbor freight. This was on a lawn mower, if you jumped it off a car it started fine

Weird. I expect a craftsmen to be just fine.

Had a hardware store test the battery too but that fucker won't turn over so I dunno

@guybo I didn't see any other 86's. As for the car being moved out of the bay, the car was definitely on and driving. However, they did have a guy helping push/hold the door open on his side when the car was moving.

@JazzleSAURUS I don't currently have the car but will be sure to test this battery stuff as soon as I do

@Ashikabi Thanks as always for the continued responses. I appreciate all the input and feedback the community is giving. I can't wait until this is finally over.

@guybo I didn't see any other 86's. As for the car being moved out of the bay, the car was definitely on and driving. However, they did have a guy helping push/hold the door open on his side when the car was moving.


@JazzleSAURUS I don't currently have the car but will be sure to test this battery stuff as soon as I do


@Ashikabi Thanks as always for the continued responses. I appreciate all the input and feedback the community is giving. I can't wait until this is finally over.

Moving the car a few metres isn't enough to charge the battery back to where it was before cranking, if they even had it started.

If the car was working fine and driving fine before it was dropped off, it should drive right out of there. Shop is responsible for the car while its on their property, its why they have insurance. If it won't drive off/start whatever they are liable.

2 things: 1) battery is drained, usually batteries don't drain THAT fast on a tint job unless the morons leave the keys in/lights on/drls on etc... tint doesn't take all day, 3hrs max, or less for this car. The car can have 50 v, but not enough cranking amps to turn the starter over. I'd change out battery 1st, if they are trying to check the ecu with a faulty/dead/dying battery it will give them all sorts of bad numbers... whoever is working on the car should have checked the battery 1st... what morons.
2) Someone there jacked your ecu and did a switch. plain and simple. doesn't matter if you saw a 86 there or not. If someone worked there/had a friend and bricked their ecu like others have said, they could have moved it out of camera site or at an angle you wouldn't beable to see what they are doing.

Why was the door open and they were pushing it?! Seems like maybe it wouldn't start for them? or they changed out the ecu and couldn't get it to start to move it, so made it look like it was moving on its own?

I dunno i don't trust anyone to work on my car anymore after my bad experience when i was 18, long time ago, lol. To many con artist/rip off people/morons that people hire that don't know jack and ruin your car. Why i learned to do all my own work, engine, transmission etc rebuilds. lol. I hope your car gets fixed and up and running again =D and its a simple battery fix. =D

Ok if someONE swaped in a different ecu then the car wont start untill you code it into security system . If you dont code it in it wont start and it will throw a cel code (cannot remember exact one off hand) but its a code to security mismatch.

It pretty easy to code new ecu in but it requires some knowledge and it takes 30 minutes to recode, manditory wait period for ecu to sync to security system, plus about another 30 minutes to get ecu out from under dash and physically put new one in.

also unless the "swapper" had techstream or subaru SSM tool to change the vin number then the old vin number will be in the ecu, ie the swapers car ecu vin.

I highly doubt anyone swapped ecus.
1. your cars not throwing cel for security mismatch
2. If the swapper had the knoledge to swap ecu and recode and change vin you can buy ECU second hand for about 100-150 dollars, hardly worth the risk to take yours and possibly leave their vin number behind in their old ecu.

.

Thank you @steve99. Unfortunately no updates as of yet. I really don't think the tint shop had any motivation to cause ill will. As for @HLHachiRoku you are absolutely right, the tint shop should cover it. I need to find out if I can actually blame them though first. Hopefully, like you say though it's battery related. @Wayno I understand. As per usual thank you for taking the time to give feedback.

if you do end up having to swap in a ecu here is how to do it.

the vin change is not manditory for car to start just the security coding, which you can do with a piece of wire


Replacing a Bricked ECU with new or used ECU (engine control Module)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102810

I doubt you could hang anything on the tint shop unless they filled the ecu with water or something else negligent. If they did nothing wrong its not their fault the car would not start, it possible its just a random component failure or bad battery, that had nothing to do with them

As always you're a boss! Thanks @steve99