Ardmore Toyota and a bad taste in my mouth.
 

I wrote this letter to Toyota of America. Love the FRS, hate the dealer.

Toyota of America,

As a recent purchaser of the 2013 Scion FR-S, I would expect nothing but devotion to selling your flagship passion car. I am amazed that a dealership has been allowed to ride on the coat-tails of Toyota's credibility and offer disgustingly luke-warm service. My frustrations are with Ardmore Toyota's ability to complete a very simple task.

6/7 - My wife and I are test driving Audis next door and see the FR-S on display. We come to the dealer asking for a test drive and make it known we are serious about purchasing. Carl provides a deep condescending sigh. We were in good spirits, but the treatment of, "here's yet another test driver that won't buy" is a slap in the face.

We love the car and decide to purchase the FR-S, however, the car does not have the factory radio installed. This is not a worry because we will be installing an aftermarket unit.

6/9 - We coordinate with the dealership to complete additional paperwork and radio pickup the following Monday/Tuesday.

6/12 - I drive 1hr each way in Philadelphia traffic to sign additional paperwork and pickup the radio. Unfortunately the radio is unavailable because parts is closed. Carl in sales told me he would have the radio set aside. I am still very forgiving at this point. Tim in finance suggests that they can drop off the radio for me on Wed/Thurs (13/14) at my job OR ship it to my home address. I let him know that either is fine and that shipping is preferred.

6/16 - I receive a phone call from parts that my radio is in with my name and is ready for installation. I spend the next 15 minutes explaining that the radio should have been shipped OR dropped off to me per Tim. The parts gentleman is unaware of a Tim and offers to call me back after investigation.

6/16 - I get a follow up call that they will ship the radio to my home and that they need to take care of the logistics of shipping it.

7/2 - I call to inquire about the radio. As the dealer has failed to get me my radio, I am ready to drive 2+ hours to pick up my radio and not deal with the shipping hassle.
7/2 - I receive a followup call from Josh in parts that my radio addressed to "DONALD LEE" has been GIVEN to another FR-S customer last Saturday. It was a "call" made by Josh as the Radio had been at the dealership since 6/8. Now I must wait another day to pickup my radio. Josh offers to ship me the radio, but at this point, I am unwilling to trust this dealerships ability to follow through on their uncoordinated service.

The principle of the matter is:
- I should have had prompt phone calls on the status of geting my radio to me. I only received call backs upon my inquiries. Unacceptable follow up.
- The dealer OFFERS to ship me my radio and FAILS to follow through. This is unacceptable.
- The dealer sells the radio appropriated to me and MISAPPROPRIATES it to another owner. This is unacceptable.

During ownership of my Honda S2000, Audi A3, and now the FR-S, I have never been so frustrated by such a simple task.

The dealership staff was uninspired in their knowledge of automobiles, and leaves me unwilling to revisit another Toyota dealership ever. Not to mention that it took a TREMENDOUS amount of coaxing my wife to visit Toyota in lieu of Audi, Honda/Acura, Mazda and others.

My wife has made it clear to me that her next car will be an Audi and NOT from the Toyota/Lexus family.

I can not help but agree with her sentiment. I should be picking my radio up tomorrow 7/3 as it was ordered today, but the water has already been spilled. Experience is in the details. Shipping a radio is a very small detail. It is an Inconsequential detail. The failure of an inconsequential detail conveys that i do not matter. This too is unacceptable from a company that promotes excellence.

I am deeply disappointed in Toyota's excellence by virtue of Ardmore Toyota.

Respectfully,
Donald Lee
2013 Scion FR-S Owner.

Reporting bad dealers to Toyota (and Subaru) usually ends with the Regional managers contacting the dealer and reprimanding them, but at this point (after you have bought your car) I am not sure that they will compensate you in any way.

I'm still glad that you contacted them, and I am also glad that you love your FR-S!

In the end it's not about compensation. The sale is done and I'll be getting the part that I should have received weeks ago. At this point, all I can do is provide public knowledge as that is what keeps companies accountable. It's probaby more important on an enthusiast forum where the individuals spending their money become very selective with where they spend it.

This is an opportunity here for Ardmore Toyota to reach out to the community and let their enthusiast base know that there's a dealer that the enthusiasts can come to and recommend whole heartedly. You see this all the time with the mod-friendly VWVortex Dub dealers. Rare, but they exist. Time will tell how this dealer holds up. My 1 star review added to the multititude of others average 2.5 stars on yelp doesn't help.

Excellence is a marathon, not won in masses, but one individual at a time. Hopefully the negative reviews will become inconsequential and be covered up in a mass of positive reviews. Time will tell...

Good on you for writing the letter about that dealer, but I wouldn't count out Lexus dealerships as they accommodate and kiss butt like no other (at least the ones I've had experience with)...they make you feel like a king

I've seen this too. I had a VW Jetta/Audi A3. Audi definitely runs circles around VW, but VW still has the same lineage of care and service. VW and Toyota being on the same playing field, VW still trounces the experience I had. Also had a S2000/Integra/RSX/TL from the Honda/Acura world, and the non-upscale brands still did well.

The wifey's already made it clear that the next SUV will be the Q5. I really was trying to get her into an RX series, or even the Lexus CT (a3 replacement), but nope nope. This sealed the deal for the Q5.

The dealership is your problem, not the maker of the vehicle. If your wife thinks passing up on a Lexus for an Audi is a good idea, then I feel sorry for your pocketbook in the future.

I think that Lexus will drive twice as far and twice as long as that Audi. Audi's sure do look nice though.

If you're willing to go to Ardmore Toyota I highly suggest you give Thompson Lexus in Doylestown, PA a chance. I am in no way associated with them but I have no problem saying good things about Thompson and all of Thompson's dealerships. Doylestown, PA is a fairly nice area with some very upscale "old money" parts of town, this might be why Thompson is such a good dealership.

To give you an example...I was roaming the dealership when I was around 19 and lusting at the Lexus ISF. A saleswoman comes up to me, makes casual conversation with me (after me saying I can hardly afford to look at a car this nice), and then proceeds to grab the keys so I can check it out and be ready so I know what I want 5-10 years down the road. That's a dealership right there.

Chuckles. Why do you think I was trying to convince her to get into a Lexus RX for her SUV choice? My german cars, I like to drive to about the 50k/warranty and trade them. My Japanese cars, I'll run them till 120-150k+ and then find new owners for them.

As long as the Audi is covered under warranty, you're pretty much golden. I chose to pay the Audi tax over VW because the Audi's are assembled in Germany and the cust service is excellent if/when you have an issue. Still may have a headache for random stuff, but I've had an overall fantastic experience with Audis. Their QA & longevity has improved a good bit since the early 2000s.

Dude you need to chill...theres nothing worse than an entitled customer who cannot understand that mistakes happen...you sound like some uptight east coaster who goes with Muffy and Buffy to the yacht club... Dealerships deal with hundreds of people every day...you didn't buy a Lexus...or even a Toyota... You bought an entry-level makers hottest selling unit... Be thankful you even have one...if you want the white glove treatment try Lexus but don't lump them together...apples to oranges...jerk demanding customers get lousy service btw try being nice and relaxing life's too short to write a letter to a car company over a stock stereo unit that only took a few weeks to get installed...and there's always the survey to express your opinion of which I'm sure you've already decided to tank them on.... Go buy and Audi or better yet a Jag-U-arrr lol

Couldn't agree with you more. My local Lexus dealership always pampers me, treating me with free breakfast for those morning maintenance's and supplying me with whatever I need.

Don't let this one Toyota dealership ruin your experience; especially don't let it affect your opinion of Lexus. I highly recommend you and your wife go to a Lexus dealership. Maybe you'll even change your mind about Audi's after it!

You're wrong. Dealerships do deal with hundreds of people a day but that is no excuse. He is a paying customer and should have been made a top priority. They said they were going to ship out the radio to him and they should have followed through. Good customer service is what makes customers want to come back and do more business with you.

It should be noted that the dealer REPRESENTS the maker Toyota to potential buyers and any bad behavior reflects on Toyota. So if you are Toyota what would you have to say to Ardmore?

I totally disagree... First of all I don't even understand how the radio is not with the car at the point of sale in the first place. That is on Scion. The owner should not have to jump through hoops to get his radio. If I was the manager I would personally deliver the radio to his house with a couple free oil change coupons.

Word of mouth is huge and Scion has been struggling for years. They should be taking all the positive press and interest in the FRS and running with it. It is a chance to turn the name around and build a loyal customer base.

This dealer does not get it...

When you say "purchased the car", I hope you mean you put down a refundable deposit?

Why not expand your net and try to get your car from a different dealer.

Sure I get it..spending thousands of dollars and customer service is HUGE...but I have won salesman of the month countless times and have a binder with hundreds of perfect sales satisfaction surveys and letters from customers to my dealer... But every once in a while a mistake gets made...miscommunications happen... We are all human after all...now I work mostly with fleet and return/referral business so my customers are usually a little more tuned in and feel more comfortable because they can call or text or e-mail and most of the time know me or were referred to me, but the fact is these guys in sales don't get paid that great and get treated like crap by customers all day. I paid my way through college with sales and am staying there until my wife gets out of dental hygiene school and people give me crap for being a "car salesman" I understand it took a few weeks but I feel like customers have a negative stereotype that is perpetuated all the time by goober know-nothing sleazy car salesmen and they come in and treat all the salespeople(some of which are actually decent and intelligent human beings) like dirt and then try to make a simple couple of miscommunications look like the worst sales experience ever when it shouldn't be that big of a deal... Mountains out of mole hills people

uptight east coaster? Way to generalize...

Every one is entitled to their opinion but yours is wrong.

I've worked with many dealerships. There are two dealerships and an entire auto group I consistently warn people to stay away from due to the experiences I've had.

I've worked in some fashion or another with customers or within a customer service industry for many years. As far as I can tell he was not a jerk with the dealership and even if he was it is ABSOLUTELY in the dealerships best interest to bend over backwards for him.

A pissed off or neglected customer will do significantly more damage to your business than a happy one does good. Why? Because when a customer has a negative experience they tell everyone they know but it's far less common for someone to spread good word of mouth. This means any business should bend over backwards for ALL customers.



DO NOT EVER GO TO
Papa's Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler/Ram in New Britain, CT
Barbarino Nissan in Wallingford, CT
The entire County Line Auto Group of dealerships in Middlebury, CT
(if you want to know why I will tell you, just ask)


PLEASE, if you are in the market for a Honda, Jeep, Dodge, Kia, Nissan, Acura, Mazda, or Fiat visit any of the Executive Auto Group dealerships in CT http://www.executiveautogroup.com/
Why? Because after I drove my Jeep off the lot at Papa's Dodge and quickly made up my mind NEVER to return I took my Jeep to Executive for service over 6 years and was treated EVERY time as though I bought a car from them on a yearly basis. I shopped there once for both a Nissan and a Jeep for my mother. We ended up buying from Toyota again (see below). I never bought a car from them... but I absolutely will if I'm ever in the market for one of the vehicles from those manufacturers. My recommendation DID lead to an aunt purchasing two Jeeps from them.

If you are looking for a Toyota or Scion PLEASE visit Wallingford Toyota/Scion in Wallingford, CT.
Why? Because when I purchased my FR-S from them they DID give me the white glove treatment and I was a bit tough to deal with on my trade. My family has purchased 7-8 vehicles from them and I sing their praises to everyone I can.

Ultimately I don't care if I'm shopping for a Kia or a friggen Rolls Royce... I'm the customer and I'm paying your bills so you better damned well treat me right. Now I may have worded that harshly but that is not being uptight. That is deserved. I've been on the serving side of customer service for a long time and I feel that this is the only way to be truly successful. If someone is successful despite not providing the aforementioned service then doing so will take you just that much further.

I dealt with several sales people in my hunt for my new car and, as I mentioned, I've had horrid experiences in the past with shit dealerships and shit sales people but I still gave every one of them the benefit of the doubt and was very nice. The moment one of them showed signs of not being honest with me or not caring it was done, though.

I guess I see it from both sides because I am on both sides...before I started selling cars I hated car salesmen...and in some ways I still do...when it's your job to know about cars and you can't even name off the hp rating of your vehicles it's pathetic... When you don't treat customers like you would want someone to treat your friends or family it's not good business...as a sales professional you have to be completely honest to succeed but your customers will lie through their teeth to you... You have to start out with people treating you almost less than human... They expect you to bow down to them and cater to their every whim all while threatening to go to another dealer over $100 with zero loyalty for your service.. And if heaven forbid one little thing goes wrong... Your just another lousy rotten car dealer...If you are lucky enough to find one of the good salespeople make sure to stick with them... Remember you can buy a car anywhere but you can only find good salespeople in certain places...the dealership makes all the difference...

Try to test drive an IS F ^_^

Why can't people just do what they say will do?:iono:

OP spends $26-28K at the dealership but could receive better customer service from the kids on the corner selling lemonade for a dollar a cup.

Hello Donald,

My name is Ryan and I am the Vice President of Marketing for Ardmore Toyota Scion. I enjoyed meeting you today here at the dealership and discussing your experience. I agree with everything you have said and I personally apologize for your experience. You purchased a wonderful car in the Scion FRS and we could have done better. We dropped the ball and when I look at our overall customer satisfaction surveys, that is not like us. Your experience is one which we have brought to the attention of our sales staff and parts staff. With the Scion FRS being a new model that was just introduced, the process for the radio was something that we were not setup for with the Manufacturer. We were able to learn from this. As I had mentioned to you, this is my families’ dealership, and I take great pride in how we treat our customers. I hope that the time we spent together here today showed you that Ardmore Toyota Scion is a good dealership with good people. I am always here for you to answer any questions or concerns you might have. I am also here to help try and answer the questions of any other Scion FRS enthusiasts. I enjoyed speaking to you this afternoon and I look forward to speaking with you again. Thank you again, Ryan

Big ups, that is a step in the right direction.
:clap:

It's the follow through that counts.

Like I said mistakes get made, but the way that both parties react and communicate with each other can make the difference...kudos to this guy for coming in to try to make things right... But I doubt it will matter... The customer's whole experience has been absolutely ruined by not having the stock stereo that he won't even really need because he's upgrading to an aftermarket one lol...I hope he give the dealer another shot so they don't get tanked on the survey, but my guess is that he will never get a Toyota or Scion ever again...keep bending back

Norcalscionchamp, it sounds like you've had some bad experiences with some other customers. This is not the venue to apply that frustration to a situation that does not apply. To apply sweeping generalizations, I can see the seeds of frustration that entitled west-coasters have sown upon your selling experience.

If you take a moment and reread the original posts, I think you will find there are some significant details particular to this transaction that is usually not a "soft" mistake that's easily correctable.

The unacceptable items that were pointed out were points of principle that were crossed, not a matter of an insignificant t not being crossed or an inconsequential i being dotted.

I had a unit promptly installed in the car post-purchase. Getting the OEM radio was more of a chore than a final item to be delivered. Throughout the process, I was forgiving and providing as much time and benefit of the doubt as possible. When my radio was sold to another FRS customer in the name of a sale, this is when I was infuriated and "escalated" to the world, to provide a venue of accountability.

Absolutely agree.

Ryan,

It was a pleasure. I'm grateful for your candidness and humility throughout the whole situation. Your proactive phone calls from the moment my letter hit the net are a huge boost in my book that the ownership is making a conscientious and hard-earned effort to ensure that every customer has an excellent experience.

It's never when things are going right that one has an opportunity to shine. I'm glad that we've all made a step in the right direction for the future.

I hope that my next service, parts and potential car(s) if they are Toyota's, I'll have an opportunity to give Ardmore another shot.

Thanks for your time and sincere apologies,
Donald

OK I will admit I have no clue about who you are or what your like, so yes I will admit I made a sweeping generalization that you might be a bit uppity based on the fact that you had to "Coax" you wife to consider a Toyota/Lexus/Scion product and that you wrote a letter to Toyota over a stereo you're not even going to use on your vehicle...But here's where my opinion is high of you....You allowed the dealer who made the mistake to make it right and regain your confidence in our brand...There are a lot of people in the Toyota family of dealers who are passionate about our customers and product...I do feel for you in that you were not given a proper presentation and sales experience, including after the sale follow-up...I just thought that a letter to Toyota over a stereo that you will not even be using is maybe going a little overboard thats all....but hey we are all entitled to our opinion and rights as customers...Congrats on the purchase, enjoy the sweet ride, and once again just try out a Lexus dealer and see if it's up to snuff...I think you'll be pleasantly suprised with the service

Lol its not about the stereo....I always go in different stealerships to test and see who has the best customer service. I then decide which stealer and salesperson to buy from based on how they treat me during the whole purchasing ordeal. In general Longo Toyota in california has consistently always been on top no matter what I am wearing, what car I drive or who I am with. (it would seem other folks on the thread have also had good luck with them) Bad dealers should look at which dealer has the best ranking and highest sales and copy what they do=win for everyone imo.

P.S. I would write a letter and doc off marks on the customer survey over a radio... whether I use it or not should not matter. Sure you already got the sale and you have no reason to really "try"...but maybe he has friends or family interested in buying soon.

My cousin wanted to buy a lexus IS250...rolled into dealer and met an awesome salesman. Purchased. Refers uncle who buys IS350 next week. Refers another uncle who buys a GS who then refers another coworker who buys an IS. LOL so random I bet that salesman is super happy to have so many sales in a month.

Thank you Ryan
It was a pleasure for me to speak with you as well. It is typically not like me to air grievances in such a public way, but I had a bad week and was venting.

I had a great conversation with you and feel completely taken care of. The follow-up instantly after I submitted the post displays the genuine interest in customer satisfaction Ardmore Toyota / Scion has shown me. The fact is that mistakes happen every day, as a fellow member of the automotive industry I understand this. It is how yo handle these situations which displays the true colors of the business. In this case, the colors are very bright. It would be my pleasure to do business at Ardmore Toyota in the future, and also refer them to family and friends.

Ryan- Thank you again for everything, I think we can all agree this ended up netting very positively for everyone. I look forward to meeting you and my FR-S.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I think we can blame this partially to Toyota as well. They did not do a good job supplying the radios. When my friend got her FRS, the radio was not in. But it became available the same afternoon.

Donald, there is a mode setting on the stock radio. The default is tC, you can switch it to FR-S. You can search in this forum about more details.

Good to see that they worked to rectify the situation. Customer service is THE service that a dealer provides. It's the one thing that they are supposed to do. You can buy any car anywhere, and for probably less money. What customers want is the value in getting excellent customer service and a positive ownership experience. Any dealer worth its salt should know that, and it's the key to their success, because repeat/referral business is the best business!

Regardless of the dealer service, the Q5 is a better choice over the RX anyway. There's a reason it's the top-selling SUV in it's class. We can't keep enough of them in inventory - 90% of them are pre-sold before even touching dealer lots!


Bullshit. Audi's last just as long as Lexus' do. Go search Craigslist for any Audi under $10k; you'll come up with dozens of examples with 150-250k+ miles on them. Their reliability has gone way, way up in the past 5 years, too - no more timing belts to snap or air suspensions to fail. Audi is known for oil consumption problems, but Toyota is known for sludge problems, so pick your poison - both manufacturers have TSB's out and will fix them under warranty. That and the fact that Audi were recently rated "Best Total Cost of Ownership" by KBB should seal the deal. Considering an RX costs the same as a Q5, I'll take the one that's designed to be driven at triple-digit speeds on the Autobahn, not the over-glorified Highlander. I can't believe Lexus has the nerve to charge that much money for a Tier 2 luxury vehicle! I could understand if it actually cost less than a comparable German car, but they don't anymore! How foolish.

My brother works in parts on weekends for an Audi dealer in Sacramento....while I am in love with Audi's styling...reliability and resale value is far more superior in th Lexus brand....JD Power and Associates is one of the most trusted providers of vehicle reliability ratings and in their 2012 Vehicle Dependability Study they of course ranked Lexus as #1 whereas Audi falls short of even industry average behind both Chevrolet and Volvo http://autos.jdpower.com/content/pre...lity-study.htm ....As I said my brother works at an Audi dealer and he is ALWAYS busy in the parts department...cost of ownership is huge for any premium brand, thats just the way it is...it might be how they weed out people who cannot truly afford their premium vehicles, but when Audi has more problems per 100 vehicles than even Chevy you better believe the expensive service department is also busy....a typical O ring that costs $21 for a Toyota would be over $90 at the Audi parts counter...Any time a brand has lower reliability it means that more problems will likely happen and unless the vehicle is under warranty....the customer will be bearing the burden...are really sweet looks and sexy lights worth it...maybe to some people

Gotta pay to play!

Exactly. Lexus is always at or near the top of those reliability surveys... that doesn't happen by mistake, and it goes far beyond anecdotal evidence.

Thanks for the heads up. I already have an aftermarket unit installed. :D

Oh I hate that term: "Problems per 100 vehicles". Audi is well aware of their ranking in that study, and have determined that many, if not most "problems" reported are not mechanical or design flaws, but perceived problems by the otherwise uninformed customer, i.e. "I don't know how to work it, therefore it must be broken". It's a big issue we're dealing with right now because 60% of Audi buyers are new to the brand, and because A. there's so much technology in the cars and B. some of the functionality of the vehicles are stark opposite from a comparable Japanese/American car (i.e. windshield wiper switches go up rather than down to turn on, fuel filler door is on the right side, reverse gear is in a different location, etc.) it's easy for a customer to get frustrated with the vehicle if they haven't been properly familiarized with everything. We combat this with a good solid hour of going through the vehicle upon delivery, because the cars functionality really is intuitive once you understand how they're designed to work. Oh, and Audi also makes bigger cupholders now, a big "problem" among American consumers :D

As for parts costing more, well many parts are engineered to a higher standard, but yes, there are plenty of parts that unnecessarily cost more than if you were to buy them for a Japanese car. Great example: last week I was looking at buying a car to fix and flip. A Porsche 944 and a Celica GT-S were the candidates, both needing clutches. A SACHS clutch for the 944 cost $720, while a SACHS clutch for the Celica cost a mere $110. Go figure. That said, a properly maintainted German car will last a very long time, and you may spend more to get there, but you can never be rich enough to buy something cheap ;)

Audi's parts are Volkswagon parts aren't they?...just like Lexus parts are made by Toyota...if they are engineered to a higher standard then why are Toyota products considered to be so far superior in reliability than the Volkswagon group's...not only in the eyes of the public but also in numerous publications and studies.....think about it....lets say we want to buy a car for our daughter going off to college.....for $10,000 dollars you could get an Audi A4 with 100,000 miles on it....or a toyota corolla with maybe a little more...114,000....which one do you think will cost you less to keep on the road for your girl....and which one do you feel most confident will get her where she needs to go....now me if I ever have a daughter going to college...I will be sending her off in a Lexus....something I feel would be reliable for her, but also something luxurious and classy

Interesting that you happened to choose that example -- also check out the standard time required to change a 944's clutch. IIRC it was 10.5 hours! Sometimes it seems that German car engineering is just a little too clever for it's own good.

That being said, I'm glad I owned a 944 for a few years. Good fun.