Side mirror delete
 

I want to replace my side mirrors with camera/lcds.

#1 - mirrors are a large source of aero drag. the inverse of that would be that removing them would give a not-insignificant power boost at higher speeds.

#2 - it would be freaking sweet! As long as it could be done right...

I am aware that it may not be legal on street or track.

So my actual question is: does anyone have actual experience with any of the off the rack systems? Are any of them a suitable functional replacement for mirrors?

:popcorn:

Dis might B gud

edit: confirmed this is a good read

Is it a cool idea? Yes.
Is it a bad idea? Yes.

Unless you drive an i8.

The issues with trying to build such a system by yourself are numerous and include refresh rate, latency, reliability, display method, and proper depth for left versus right, among other things.

I'm going to remove my steering wheel and maneuver the car with my mind.

sub'd for progress.

Only the i8 concept car has it, not the street legal car. Even the BRZ concept car had cameras.

Just about every state has laws regarding an interior mirror and exterior mirror on the driver side.

I'd be curious how fast the OP is planning on going, as drag added by the mirrors is minimal.

Fast..... Real fast....

... Didnt you hear, he drives an FRS..... the fastest car ever made.

Everyone knows FRS stands for Fast, Really Speedy.

Actually, testing has shown 2-7% drag depending on vehicle. That's actually quite a lot.

No it wouldn't. Removing mirrors would provide no power increase whatsoever.

This is a silly idea. Please do it so we can laugh at it.

Subd

WOW I just....WOW

Looks like Tcoat just can't even.

Testing where? That seems like quite a lot for mirrors.

Had to check to make sure I hadn't accidently logged into Prius chat! Sounds like a subject that is right up their ally.

LOL. I was just goofing around to see if I could find a source for his numbers, and I actually ended up on a fucking Prius board. I closed it after reading three nonsensical posts with amateur scientists doing their own calculations to estimate MPG increases.

I'd have to look it up again and I'm frankly too damn lazy at 5am. If you think about it though, it kind of makes sense. It's one of few parts of the car that just kind of juts out and doesn't tend to be as aerodynamically designed.

Maybe in 1976. I don't know many cars that don't have aerodynamic mirrors anymore. Hell, even vehicles with big flat fronts (i.e. pickups, vans) have aerodynamic mirrors now. By those number if 4 people in the car stick their open palmed hand out a window the drag should increase by 8 to 28%!

Many mirrors are still not terribly aerodynamic, actually. Part of it is just nature of the beast. A tradeoff in the name of safety.

Not that any of this matters. You already know what I think of this whole idea. ;)

folding mirror option?

I heard the shark-fin antenna produces drag, too. I'm replacing mine with a 3 inch string of dental floss in order to reduce wind resistance.

2%-5% variance. Wow, you should go over to http://ecomodder.com/

Lowering your car and adding smooth wheel covers will decrease drag more than removing your mirrors. In fact covering the wheels totally helps even more!

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...yNVcCUqOtg3mKT

go for it and post pics of the result. just dont ever drive on a public road.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8QXU8TwjmQ"]Helm, Warp One Engage! - YouTube[/ame]

See, the Starship Enterprise doesn't have side mirrors. OP found the secret to warp speed on the 86 platform.

I see your warp speed and up you a dimensional drift pulled off by this fool


http://s3cf.recapguide.com/img/tv/11...14-34-fdab.jpg

you...you COULD engineer a perfect weather-resistant and aerodynamic camera solution that somehow feeds flawless 1080p real-time video in some snazzy integrated LCD panels on ye cluttered dash... though this would likely cost $$$$'s to prototype, develop, and test. Not to mention rendering your car inoperable due to any type of critical failure of the cameras, wiring, LCDs, or any other physical/electrical damage to the components in its useful lifespan.

... Or you suck it up and mount a small sheet of glass and reflective metal and call it a day.

found it ish, Next, mirror drag is quantified at 3-6% of total vehicle drag for a modern car in a report called Contribution of different devices to the total drag (PDF):

"A very well designed mirror increases the drag of a car of approximately ΔCd=0.012. But this value can reach 0.025 to 0.030 for the worth [worst] designs. Actually it seems reasonable to think that the average value for ΔCd is of around 0.015"
"...[the mirror's] combination with the A-pillar contributes to the creation of trailing vortices at the side front of the car, which are highly drag-consuming


source:PDF: Contribution of different devices to the total drag - from the reports archive of Professor Lennart Löfdahl, Chalmers University of Technology, GÖTEBORG, SWEDEN

are we really arguing over the fuckin drag co-efficient of a CAR MIRROR?

Here's a picture:

http://contrailscience.com/skitch/12...731-081017.jpg

If the US Air Force felt like it was okay to put a rear view mirror on the U2, the presence or absence of a mirror is going to make fuck-all difference on your car.

Wow. You know it doesn't matter what you are discussing on the internet, everyone always has to be ****s.

1 - EVERY car manufacturer on the planet is working on replacing mirrors with cameras. The hold up is with archaic rules in the DOT. The same rules that are holding up active LED and laser headlights. The fact that major manufacturers have already developed these systems pretty much invalidates every one of the "dumbest idea ever" posts.
2 - my phone has a 1080p display and can record 1080p video. the components are off the shelf at this point. In terms of hardware required, this could be done for the same amount of money as a set of high end aftermarket mirrors.
3 - you guys will discuss cat deletes all day for a gain of ONE horsepower, but reducing the drag of the car by 3-5% is "not worth the time" and "illegal". If aero is so insignificant, why did Toyota bother with putting under body panels on to smooth airflow under the car?

I'm not sure if I have ever seen a forum so full of trolls. Good to know that a community is so unsupportive and stagnant that they are unable to answer a simple question of "have you ever seen an off the shelf system that would work?". A simple "no" would have sufficed.

LOL don't listen to these Trolls OP!

My girlfriend's 1966 Ford Bronco only has 1 side mirror and it's on the drivers side and hey, if Ford can do it why can't you? Go right ahead! post pics when done!

And extrashaky: the U2 had a pair of turbine engines generating 38,000lbs of thrust and it flew at 70,000ft where the air is less than 5% the density that it is at sea level. out of all of the troll posts, this was the one that was the least relevant.

What's funny is this car is about being each to their own. I'm sure there were probably people who thought the same thing when I kept pushing the heated mirror issue on US spec FR-S and what it would take to add them since it was clearly established up to that point FR-S didn't come with them here.

Well guess what. We found you could add it on a 10 Series buy adding the mirror housings and plugging in the correct relay for a total plug and play and through the efforts of @Silent_Dan doing it on his base model FR-S we've found you can just add the pins to the door harness (both ends) and splice wiring between the pins you add because we also tracked down the Toyota Wire Harness repair manual which list all the part numbers to order the repair pins with a section of wire pre-crimped which more or less makes it plug and play as well other than having to run the extra bit of wire.

So kudo's to this guy/gal who wants to do something unique. Good luck.

A couple of things.

I was going to troll you and you sincerely deserve it; this is ridiculous, but I see those positions are already filled.

Even though the amount the mirrors are dragging is likely as much as the front license plate and a really insignificant thing to focus so much effort on, I'll help because I claim to see no basis for being able to dictate to others what they can do with their own cars. This is me walking my talk.

Snarking system deactivate.

Sarcasm cannons do not lock target.

TRD claims that these split the air effectively and allow the mirrors to slide through that slot more smoothly. You don't have to engineer anything, just buy em and bolt them on. I'm actually looking at picking up a set myself, for that reason secondly, firstly for aesthetic reasons. I think the trim at that spot now looks stupid.

http://www.trdparts.jp/english/86_pe...line/aero.html

http://www.trdparts.jp/english/86_pe...fender-fin.jpg

See, when i saw this thread my brain said fender mounted mirrors, but I think this thread is just about as good


Sent from my Glade Air Freshener

Yeah that's JDM AF. As a pilot though, and having taking master's level advanced aerodynamics, the delete is a great idea. In cars you only really care about your C sub d (Coefficient of Drag). Mirrors may "only" reduce drag by 3-7% but on our cars since they only have a .27 Cd anyway (part of the reason I bought my BRZ besides the 18" CG) it will probably be more towards the latter. As far as 'oh who cares' well every little fraction of a second counts. 1hp, 1lb lighter, 1% better aero... it's all improvement. Plus deletes could be a pretty inexpensive mod even with the electronics. I like the idea of the purposeful boundary layer drag vortex generators to reduce the overall drag too, although I never buy them because I feel like they are designed more for looks and not actually wind tunnel tested which could make them hurt more than help if it's done wrong. (Like they should probably be WAY smaller than most are). Mirror deletes are a pretty safe bet though because anything that just sits out there in the wind is pure drag. As for the U2 the little tiny ass mirror caused a 2% increase in fuel burn! It was necessary to make sure they weren't leaving a contrail which is a like a giant arrow in the sky pointing out your location. Not a good thing for a stealth aircraft...

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb43Nxuwc4I[/ame]

How fast do some of you guys drive where the mirrors drag is even a measurable impact on speed or mileage?
I have factory mud flaps, drive with my windows open and frequently have my arm out the window. Does this mean I am sucking up gas and going way slower than I should be?
This is not a formula one car we are talking about here and some things can be taken too far for the results that are gained.


Gonna head over to the Prius room where they really know their stuff on this topic and see how many thousands of dollars I can spend to save .002 mpg.