C&D: Aaron Robinson Scion Must Die!
 

Article from August issue of Car and Driver. Sorry for the photo, I'm not going to be near a decent scanner for a week.

EDIT: Pulled an old scanner out of the closet. This is a little better....

By the way this entire issue is a good read. It's their "Speed Issue" and includes amongst other things a shoot-out between the ZL1 and the GT500, and a 101MPH (actual not scale) R/C car (Traxxas XO-1).

I totally agree with him. This car should've been the Toyota Celica.

Calling the FR-S a Toyota Celica would have been worlds better! If only!

Anyone else have this issue and a scanner? Looks like a good read.

Just remembered I have an old scanner in the DTC (dead technology closet). Working on it now.

Who FUCKING CARES. The car is here through some miracle, and that's all.

Toyota or Scion badges don't keep this car from being a Subaru. That's what the asshead named Aaron Robinson should be writing about. I don't expect everyone to be fully appreciative of the brand, but it's jesters like him that develop a public opinion of cars (we read review, we like review, we buy car/ we read review, we like review and critique, we buy other car) in a negative light.

I don't give a shit if there is no 'Mr. Scion' because the car is a knockout. And it doesn't make sense for any writer to point that out.

OP updated.

Potato potato......... He does have a point in regards to Scion but then gets personal saying it should have been a Celica... Maybe it should have, maybe there saving that one for later.. FT86CLUB as a community argued this for a long time, remember those days all the OG's here back then?!!, i do hahaha, people saying "they should call it a Celica", "NO!!! a Sprinter", "+1 for Supra", "what about Corolla dont forget Corolla they were once cool", "lets just call it a fukn FT86 Dikheads!!"... "Ban?".. LOL... The good ol' days and even we couldnt agree.... It is what it is now...FRS..

And for the aussie its the GT86 or GTS86:thumbsup:

:thumbup:agree

I'm meh about the whole argument frankly but thought there would be an interest in it here since this has been longed discussed in the threads.

:popcorn:

I do ... I would have preferred the Toyota badge. Because then we wouldn't have to deal with the stripped down Scion.

I probably could have gotten HID's and navigation from the factory instead of wishing for the upgraded parts or paying more in the long run to put them in the car myself. :mad0260:

If it was called a Celica, I would have visited the Subaru dealership instead. I've never revered the Celica. It's a FWD high school girls car IMHO and only a handful are AWD. It really doesn't share any heritage with the 86.

The Celica was only a FR layout from 1970-1985... Everything after, was designed for the cheer squad. Also none of them were real "sporty" or had the heritage of such until the stuck the AWD in them did Rally.

So yeah, the article was good right up until THAT. Why call it a Celica if branding it as a Toyota? Why not just a Toyota 86? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

I think it would have been better served as a Toyota, not a Celica, but given that it is a Scion, I don't see a problem with that, really.

I'm 30 and this is my 3rd scion and I'm proud of it. Scion gets this generation. Has subie ever thrown parties for owners from across the country to come and hang out while catering and footin the bill? Has subie hosted drag race events autocross events VIP sections at fourmla d? Fuck has any of them besides scion flown the normal folks out to la for VIP treatment ahla the first 86. Toyota had people come to Japan for the press stuff in december but that's it. I'm glad it's not a Toyota here in the states I have nothing to relate to it by. I was graduating highschool when the supra was taken off the market. Other then that the celica was a girls car. All The other cars were boring. I'm glad it is the way it is. Scion has me coming back and coming back and will keep on doing so.

"The best Toyota in decades is branded with the automotive equivalent of an “L” on its forehead."


So which is it Aaron, the best Toyota in decades or a loser?

Does the badge on the sheet metal negate all the design and engineering that Subaru and Toyota put into this vehicle or the actual performance of the finished product?

Is there a point to this article other than, "Wah, wah, wah! It's not a Toyota"?

When I read that line it took me a second to realize he meant "L"oser and not "L"exus. I was thinking "Huh"?

The only issue I have with it being a Scion is that it means there's only one base trim, and since Scion is supposed to be a cheap brand they had to strip out all the nice features. If it was a Toyota they might've offered it with HIDs, that would've swayed me away from Subaru. Not to take anything away from the FR-S as it is, but if it was a Toyota we probably would've gotten more trim levels and options.

Lol i took the "L" as a reference to luigi...being that it's toyota's secondary less significant brand.

Lol. Nice one.

I'd take a Celica Supra as inspiration over or added into the mix of "heritage" cars and then call it the Celica 86 (C-86)

http://automotivenewsandresources.fi..._liftback.jpeg


I will say though, the Scion community (owners mostly, but some dealerships) are full of people willing to help, and has been a good brand for enthusiasts to get together with.

The same thing applies for the AE86. How long has it been since the Corolla was RWD?

As an early adopter of a Scion ( 05 tC) and a Avid Car Enthusiast.. I do love the idea of history with a Marque or with a nameplate (celica). I love the history of companies like Mercedes, Audi, BMW, and yes even Toyota but I have to say that Scion really intrigued me. I liked the idea of a company producing cars that were loaded with value when compared with similar types from other companies. I liked the no-haggle pricing although that was an issue when i went to get my car back in 04.

I think Scion is a viable company. I like the name, I like the way the cars are sold, and I really like that I can personalize the car the way I want.. not having to rely on option packages or getting things I don't want because i want a better stereo..lol.
I know they don't have a history yet. No real Racing legacy.. but then again.. none of the other brands did either when they just started out. I'm sure with the FR-S.. we'll see some SCCA cars and who knows what else which will build a reputation. Just keep the dealerships interesting.. produce cars that are unique- not just rebaged, and get the owners involved and invested in their cars.
I too thought the car should be a Toyota- Celica, 2000GT. But after seeing it in person.. with that Scion logo (which i actually like) on the nose.. Well I think it fits. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I hope Scion does well with this car.. and gets better with additions like replacements for the xB and xD. Just my opinion..

Agree with killing Scion, strongly disagree with naming this car a Celica. Those have been FWD or AWD for too long, and they needed to emphasise the FR nature of this car.

(As for disparaging the Celica as a "girl's car", I don't know whether to be more insulted by the lack of respect for the car, or that you apparently think calling it a "girl's car" is an insult. There *are* women who are driving enthusiast, you know?)

YES!!! THANK YOU! Someone who gets it!!! Who let the marketing clowns make this decision?! The Scion brand was and continues to be a big mistake; they could've just as easily marketed the Toyota xB, tC, xD, and 86 to the hipster youth and made TOYOTA look younger, something it desperately needed. Who says young people don't want to drive Toyotas? Are they high?!

I also strongly disagree with calling it a Celica. It's an AE86 successor, plain and simple.

To those that don't know the celica started life as a RWD vehicle.

Yes, and Toyota managed to f#%k that up, too. From an enthusiast's standpoint, at least. Obviously it was a huge sales success.

My 01 celica was an awesome car for an FF. Its not a girls car in anyway to me. I've had male and female friends buy them. It was really the only unique affordable sporty car at that time with four seats. Don't diss the Celi!

Sure it wasn't the original FR, but it sure didn't dilute the nameplate at all to me.

I find it funny that you guys fell for the AE86 hype in this car.

Even if they branded it a Lexus and called it the Supra Celica Corolla Sienna GTS-Four TT, it still has Subaru stamped on every body panel and near every component...

It is what it is guys, and IMO it doesn't matter what badge is up front, so long as its the same wonderful piece of engineering underneath!


And my Scion dealers are actually pretty cool, better than those old-timers over at Subaru...

I miss those days :cry:

Are people forgetting the 1990-1999 Celica Alltrac? Rally much? Seriously, the Celica has more heritage in sports than any other car Toyota has ever built.

I understand the whole ae86 stuff that Toyota wants to sell.. but the reality is. from the styling, the proportions and yes even the placement of the engine all spells out 2000GT. This car is more a spiritual successor than ANY other Toyota product. As to Subaru's name all over it? Well I have no problem with that because they did much of the engineering work while Toyota did most of the styling.. It is what it is.. and its a GREAT CAR.. in Ten years lets see what happens with regards to Scion.. Like I said in my earlier post.. I really like the company, logo, and how they are sold.. just need more kick ass products!!

you just made me relive some funny memories on here

I was thinking the same thing. I believe I voted for Toyota Sprinter.

The Scion brand name carries a stigma for me... as a silly brand, not serious. When I get behind the wheel though I forget that completely.
I'm hoping FR-S will strengthen the Scion name... perhaps its heritage is starting now and we are living the history.
I don't know though - there is a lot of hate because it's "basically a re-badged Subaru." :bonk:

I agree that making it a Scion was a disservice. This is a special car that Toyota needed, even in the states. Scion is like Toyota's special ed child. They are retarded when it comes to options, they don't do numbers, and they try to appeal to the simple-minded party people, wanna be gangsters, and ricers. That's not exactly something to be proud of if you're a true car enthusiast.

I do not think that it should have been called a Celica however. Celicas came in several different variants, all had Toyota inline-4 engines, and since 1985, were either FWD or AWD. This car is something very different.

But with that said, I don't mind the styling of the Scion logo and I actually really like the FR-S name. Never the less, I am just glad they are offering it in the US in an un-molested way.

Then maybe they should have called it the "Toyota Subaru BRZ" so that everyone knows.

Speaking of which, to those who still consider this a Subaru, consider this: Even though it was ultimately engineered and assembled by Subaru, the entire rear wheel drive dynamics of the car come from Toyota. The transmission, LSD, and traction/stability control logistics are all Toyota based. Not to mention, the interior and exterior design was done by Toyota. This car has very apparent Toyota characteristics so I think it's pretty ignorant to be calling it a rebadged Subaru, even though Subaru made it a point to stick their logos everywhere.

If Toyota put their sports car along side the Sienna, Avalon, and Camry instead of their youth brand, they may as well have closed the doors on the Scion brand all together. You turn Scion from a "loser" brand to a good brand by giving it good products. I think the FR-S is step one of making Scion a real enthusiast's brand. We could see a real hot hatch based on the next Corolla and maybe a sport sedan after that. Scion gives you the necessities without the fluff. You'd think that enthusiasts would love that.

If they made me "Scion King for a Day" that is exactly what I would do. Scion becomes the enthusiast brand, Lexus stays the luxury brand, and Toyota remains the brand in-between. They could even market it as

"SCION = Sports Cars In Our Network"

:lol:

This IS the replacement to the 2000-2005 Celica GT-S, IMO. I drove the 2000 GT-S for 5 years and loved it because it balanced the equation of performance, handling, affordability, practicality, reliability and economy better than any other car option out there save maybe an Acura RSX-Type X (and I wouldn’t know for sure, since I never owned one). I've owned a lot of cars, but fell in love with few. Maybe because something like 90% of this model Celica built were GTs, people don’t realize what the GT-S versions were. They were 100 HP/Liter 1.8, weighed 2500 and change, and had great brakes, suspension, 6 speed manual transmission, and leather. Very easy to drive fast and tons of fun if you didn’t mind revving the engine to its 8400 rpm rev limit. Since I bought the car cheap because it was a used 7 year old, I drove it like almost every mile might be its last. Missed a few shifts, once accidently down shifted to second instead of fourth, and drove it sheepishly for the next 10 miles only to find nothing went wrong. Cheap to insure, always got 30 MPG, never burned a drop of oil through 141 thousand miles (60K mine), never had an issue save some charcoal filter thing that cost $70 because Toyota manufactured a unique replacement part saving hundreds over replacing the entire part.
All I ever told anyone who asked was I wished it was RWD and/or Limited slip. In the wet it was way too easy to spin the one tire with grip and bang the rev limiter. Believe it or not, no nannys other than ABS brakes, and I never felt it needed anything more.
The original window sticker was in the glove box when I purchased it. 13 years ago, that car stickered for north of $24K. Yeah, if this car is what I hope what it is (see above) then it is the true Celica successor.
Unfortunately, Scion is not the value play here. I say buy the Subaru BRZ premium or limited for much less than the inflation adjusted price of the Celica and enjoy the toys like navigation and HIDs, which Subaru throws in for next to nothing, while getting the car Toyota wanted desperately to build. Or buy the Scion. In the end, nobody looses, really.

Oh boy here comes "what this car's name should have been" debate.

I've put enough amount of time & debate of this one... this time around, I'll just enjoy reading other member debate instead :popcorn: