Nasa TT/TD disccussions
 

Need help with classing? Want to discuss parts specific to TT/PT? Is it related to the twins?

This is your thread.

Crap - Mike beat me to it....


Thanks for getting this started.

Figure I'll throw this out there for people who haven't read the 2016 rules.

NASA has increased the minimum competition weight (car + driver, measured immediately after you come off track) again for 2016.

Year -- Comp Weight
2014 - 2775 lbs.
2015 - 2885 lbs.
2016 - 2940 lbs.

So, if you are competing in TTD-B classes you will need to take points if your car with you in it is lighter than 2940 lbs (or add ballast). While I think these weight increases were unnecessary, these are the rules. That said, I'm looking forward to competing in TT4 next year (planned weight/power ratio of 12.0whp/1lbs) when they introduce the new class. I'm prepping for it this year and will most likely end up running in TTB, even though I'll probably be quite under powered.

When will NASA TT come to PNW? :wub:

Don't forget you can dyno-reclass into your target class, and effectively take zero points for all of your power mods.

You get hit hard power to weight though. My dyno reclass had me at 15.67 lbs/whp. Class power to weight is 14.25 lbs/whp and adjusted can be even lower (tires less than 245mm gives you another 0.4 lbs/whp etc.). So at 195whp (which is what I make on 93oct) I would have to be at 3055 lbs. which would mean I would have to add 170 lbs. of ballast to the 70 lbs I already have. If I were to re-class using my E85 number of 205whp I'd be at 3213 lbs.

I really don't think dyno reclass is the way to go with this car, especially for TTD. Best build in my opinion is:

5pt exhaust (header/fp/catback)
5pt decent coilover (like KW V2 or something)
6pt 225 Hoosier R7
2pt BBK or diffuser maybe
1pt Clutch type LSD
0pt E85 tune and lots of bushings

There's more to dyno reclassing than peak horsepower.

If you're serious about competing, schedule a consult with me, and I can show you the light.

I wish I could even find a dynojet to make a couple pulls on, all we have is Mustang Dynos.

YAYYYYYYY :)

I have my comp weight at 2800 this year. Last year I was out 2950. I'm excited to see how it feels now.

How will that impact you classing/points wise? And where did you loose the 150lbs from?

I, for one, would like to see this thread succeed where the other one failed.

My name is Chase and I am really hoping to go through the NASA HPDE licensing program this year and hopefully race in TTD. I have done quite a lot of reading with regards to classing rules so I am really excited about see how everything turns out!

I look forward to learning and sharing in this thread!

Getting your comp weight down to 2800 isn't very hard. That's about where I was last year (my comp weight was 2885 and I was running 70lbs. of ballast and I weight in at around 210-215lbs with all my race gear on, leaving my car around 2600lbs with about 1/2 tank of gas).

I was able to get my car (not including me) down to around 2600lbs while leaving the interior completely stock. My lightweight mods include:

Removing trunk junk - about 40lbs.
Lighter wheels (Enkei RPF-1) - about 16lbs
Essex Sprint BBK - about 20lbs.
Driveshaft Shop Carbon Fiber DS - around 13lbs.
ACT Pro-lite Clutch and flywheel - around 12 lbs.
Shorai 5lbs. battery - around 20lbs.

So that's about 120lbs right there from the car and you can get another 20 pretty easily by moving to a lighter cat back from the stock one.

When you want to remove even more than that, take a look at @Anthony build thread:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42284

My name is Faber - 2013 BRZ Limited - NASA Central.


Car currently has too many points, would be in TTC.... debating how much money or time I want to spend to make it back to TTD before this season. This will be my first NASA season.

Plans for Spring:
4.56 Final Drive swap
Maybe 4 Point Roll bar w/ seat/harness/hans
Maybe 17x8 w/ R Comps




Current Parts Combo:
(Finish while I am not at work)

I have FI. I was in TTB but now will be in TT3. I just removed some of the interior, deleted the AC and put in a lighter battery.

Did you actually weigh your car? I'm not saying it is impossible, but I have a very hard time believing the car dropped to 2600 lbs without gutting the car.

I compete with @enivid and we have similar setups. I will be weighing mine in the coming weeks and will see if I need to add ballast or not.

My car gets weighed at pretty much every event. Last year at nationals I got weighed after every session. Car always came in around 2890-2900 with about 1/2 a tank of gas. If the car got much lower than 1/2 a tank I would have been under my weight limit of 2885.

So, 2900 - 70lbs of ballast - 215 for driver and gear = 2615lbs for the car at around 1/2 a tank of gas.

You can see in my videos that I still have the full stock interior (well, I guess you can't see the back, but its all there too).

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBAxIFB4Gww"]Fastest Lap @ East Coast Championships - 2:12.605 - YouTube[/ame]

Nice! I guess I forget how much the supercharger kit, intercooler, extra oil coolers, larger radiator, and harness bar weigh. I was at 2950 with 1/2 tank of gas, I weigh 215lbs, and I do have the JRSC, lightweight battery, AP Racing Sprint BBK, aluminum driveshaft, full exhaust system, and aero with full interior.

This year will be very different though and I may need ballast to hit my power to weight limit for TT3.

Mine was weighed at two different tracks with two different organizers at 2610 with similiar mods

Cool! I'll be able to post a weight in the next few weeks when I get around to corner balancing the car.

In Central it seems like you would have more fun shooting for TTB, there is a much bigger competiton range.

I'll be competing in NASA Central TT3 (pending new dyno classing)

Unless you are on a very low speed track, I think you will find that the Final Drive will make zero difference. The exception to that is if you are constantly finding yourself in between gears or feel that the gearing is too tall but I think the cost will be far more than the benefit.

I spend way to much time in the 6500-7000rpm range in 3rd at the two tracks I use the most. Hoping the FD will make 4th more inviting. If I can find my self more comfortable in 4th thru most corners it will cut out a lot of shifting.

I know we have 2 FRS from MN that will be in TTD this season, and then my BRZ. If I play in TTB, I think ill be way off pace to ever get any contingencies or be competitive with out spending a lot of money, can a NA car compete in B?

The new HP rules for TT3 look to have distinct advantages for some platforms. I know my buddy is dropping from TT2 to TT3 in his Civic cause of them, he is very excited.

Depending on the tracks you run, FD might really help. On Thompson and NJMP - Thunderbolt with the stock gearing I find there's a few spots where you either have to back off a little and hold 7krpm for more than is comfortable or shift up to 4th for not much distance then back down for braking. Both are not ideal for running the fastest times.

Honestly, it's VERY easy. Mine weighs in at 2643.38lbs with a full tank of gas and I still have basically full interior (Shrader Rear Seat Delete Kit saved 19.375lbs) and my 245 Direzza's on 17x8 RPF1's actually added .8lbs. It's my daily and most people don't know there's anything not stock about it other than a bit of exhaust volume. Non-twin people have actually asked if it came from the factory with only 2 seats.

Remove spare tire/tools/manual, lightweight pulleys, rear seat delete, inlet tube & filter swap w/ noise tube delete, aluminum driveshaft (won't do CF, blew 2 on my Vette), lightweight battery, Perrin OP, HKS FP and Spec-L catback, remove rear bumper beam.

Can still replace the front beam with Beatrush, AP Sprint, HKS Header, and SPEC flywheel/clutch and shed an estimated 42.4lbs more to bring it down to 2,601. Remember that's on a full tank of gas (@6.3lbs/gal). Leave out 4gal and you're below 2,580. YMMV. :)

@Anthony has put together an exceptional thread on component weights here. Pick and choose what you're willing to lose and what your competition ruleset allows.

Yep, that'll do it. Not only the larger oil cooler and radiator but the extra fluid you're adding too. I think even the Edelbrock SC kit adds in the neighborhood of 80lbs with all associated hardware and that has less 'plumbing'.

Hi Everyone, quick question as I am getting ready for my first event with NASA. Still trying to figure out the points thing. Have been seeing many different "views" when it comes to OEM Spoilers.

I have a BRZ Limited, which comes with the spoiler from the factory). Does this mean the spoiler is BTM, or since the BRZ Premium model does not have a spoiler, does that mean my limited automatically takes the +4 for the OEM Spoiler.

Some people think that BTM means "By The Manufacturer", but it really means "Base Trim Model". So, since the spoiler is not included on the Base Trim Model BRZ, you would indeed need to take the 4 pts for non-BTM aero.

My undertanding was getting hit with 4 points for it. I understood BTM, but had been seeing lots of posts in regards to BTM being linked to the specific model vs the car: Limited vs Premium, SE vs none SE, and all sorts of comparisons.


I am at that point where I will end up running TTC because I don't want to deal with pulling body parts off my car for a couple events per year, so wanting to make sure that everything is 100% before ordering stickers.

Yes, you would take 4 points for the spoiler. BTM is always linked to the base trim model with no options (so premium for the BRZ, which does not come with a spoiler). I think there are a few special cases with other cars with major upgrade packages, like the Mustang Boss302, where they are classed separately from the base mustang, but for our cars there is no special classing of for the different trim levels.

Where did you find the base class for our cars? The classifier spreadsheet doesn't list that and the 'base class' field is only a dropdown, not referenced from anywhere else.


*EDIT* Nevermind, found it in the rules. Thought it was in their 'classifier program' like they said on the website. :bonk:

Ya, they are in TTD. Its in the normal TT Rule Book. Then you can play with the fancy spreadsheet and be all like :( to TTC you go!

Your best bet is probably TTC, it'll give you plenty of wiggle room too. With 0 suspension mods, on 200tw Direzza's and just due to my minor street mods (OP-Back exhaust, pulleys, slightly less weight)... I fall about 3 points from TTC.


That said, the car is already competitive with TTC times so putting the extra 23 allowable points into suspension/tires would make it a formidable competitor.

Are the pulley's really worth the points? I've already got T2s, Sway Bars, Bushings, Endlinks, Full exhaust/tune, 4.56 FD, and RE71s. And then some useless OEM Wing Points as well as an intake(not sure what to say about it) and front strut bar.



Not sure if the brz can compete with an S2k w/ aero.

Came to that conclusion about 30 seconds in. :lol:

They aren't worth the points, that's the problem. I never built anything to TT spec (or really any spec for that matter) so backtracking to add up points shows how silly a lot of it is. I'm in the same boat as you on the intake. Perrin silicone inlet to get rid of the noise tube and the HKS snorkel. Neither make any appreciable competitive difference, but they fall into the category that includes doing a true cold air intake because non-BTM. :(


No, definitely not. @Aero :) It's all in how you build the car though. Ideally, the best way to hedge your is you have to pick only 1 race series and build/spec your car to their rules eeking out every points advantage you can. Don't do anything extra or 'wasteful'. Ie, rather than Z2's, pulleys, and the snorkel, those points would have been better spent knocking a set of R888's or RE71's down to +2.

TT4 is a go! http://nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=132031

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

woooooooooh

Can you give me a quick TL;DR vs TTC/TTD? I'll read the full post later when I'm at a computer...