Cusco or KW coilovers?
 

I'm at a crossroads here, deciding between the Cusco Zero A or the KW v3's. I want the ride to not be much harsher than stock. I will get the car corner balanced/aligned no matter which option I go with. Anyone have any thoughts/opinions and your reasoning? This is my daily driver, i'm not a suspension expert so any insight is appreciated.

I'm getting KWs if I ever commit to leaving CS for ST_. No clue on what that's like to live with as a daily driver, but a coworker daily drives them on his AP1.

Apparently the KW's don't have camber adjustment ability and will need additional parts that will cost you if you want to do camber adjustment in the front.
I'm currently debating on which coilovers to purchase as well.

I'm ok with buying some camber bolts to get some adjustment for the front. I'm really more concerned with the ride quality. I've had a set of Teins before and they were way too rough for me. I'm leaning towards the Cusco's since they seems to be softer.

I would be VERY surprised if the KWs do not offer camber adjustment. Usually on strut applications where there is no factory adjustment they slot one of the holes. I can't really tell by the picture in scooby south's thread but that appears to be the case.

KWs are going to make for a much better ride and have independent compression and rebound adjustment.

I think KW's are only 6k which isnt to stiff. Tein Flex are like 7k and Tein Mono are even harder.
Depending on how aggressive you go with rims and rubber you might need a stiffer suspension so you don't rub or bottom out on the road. If your not going too aggressive I hear the KW's have a nice ride/feel. But your right about the Tein it will be a harder ride.

I would also pick ones which are going to be easily warrantied or serviced if you have a problem. I'd go with the KWs.

Apparently whoever told you that is clueless. I sell them, hell... I *have* them on my car... I adjusted my camber on the strut.

I do a lot of suspension work, I made one tweak spring rate wise to my KW's and I am extremely happy with them, everyday and when I'm autocrossing too. The ride is firmer, but actually less harsh (better dampers in general and compression adjustment allow some flexibility there too) than the stock struts and shocks.

And independent compression and rebound adjustment is not common. Most link them which is the cheap way out. Add the stainless bodies and lifetime warranty (and that KW is OEM on some pretty high end cars too) and I don't think you can go wrong. I'm very picky about dampers, and I'm very happy that I opted for these. That's more than I can say for some things I've tried in the past on other cars..... :)

Thank you everyone for the comments. Definitely helps me make a more informed decision. I'm being extra cautious when it comes to this car. :D As far as wheels and tires, i'm set on 18" wheels, not sure on tire selection yet.

Do you mind sharing which spring rates your are running? Thanks.

I would go with KW between the 2 but personally I am waiting for Bilstein to come out with there products

I think it's safe to say there will definitely be a Bilstein strut replacement available at some point fairly soon that will be a perfect match for some performance springs that will be available fairly soon.

Kw's w swift springs is money. I think ast/vorshlag has camber top plates available.

You could get white line com c top hats from RCE to add some negative camber and caster up front and fine tune with the lower bolts.

While adjustable top hats are more adjustable I've had very bad experiences with them in the past from multiple brands because of the pillow ball mounts, which can tend to clunk and wear out under street conditions.

You'd need a rear camber solution if you're going to lower your car as well - wpeither the Cusco arms or white line bushings.

Curious to hear about the Strano V3s. When set up well V3s are great but the double adjustability is tricky for the average person to get dialed in and the regular V3springs are a bit soft (6k I believe).

I also sell (and I'm using) the Whiteline upper mounts.... you could call Strano Performance Parts too.... ;)

I really can't dish on what I'm doing with rates (and why) publicly. Everytime I do I end up doing the work for other shops. Now I'm not one to hide what I do and why from folks who are already customers, but I understand I can't expect you to be a customer if I'm if not talking at all. There is a happy medium. But I can't just tell the world at large. Hate to be that guy, but years of seeing my ideas swiped and copied has led me to that point. :(

I will say that I think the rates in the box aren't too bad as a start. But there are a lot of factors in what we do with them and why. Not all cars will run the same rates either depending on setup differences as well as use differences.

Good to see you in here Sam. REALLY good to see you with an FRS. Switched from the HS Mini to an FRS two weeks ago and I'm pretty much set on an ST build, although RTR might be fun with this car. Knowing you are playing with an FRS just made the decision regarding where to buy the parts to make it competitive very easy!

Never had a problem with TEIN Adjustable Pillow mounts in the past, and florida roads aren't perfect either. I'm still waiting on some feedbacks on the KW V3. And mr.Strano I second that request for spring rates.

On the side note, this Tanabe application seems to be street use friendly.
http://www.tanabe-usa.com/images/ext...0specinfo1.jpg

But I'll still wait a bit and use the FR-S community as lab rats, <3.

Let us know when you're done with the R&D and ready to sell some packages :thumbup:

I can't speak to Cusco, because I have never used them. But I have driven/set up/ installed KW on many cars. They are well respected in the industry by impartial folks who know what they are talking about. The spring rates are likely softer than the JDM options, but that does not mean they aren't as "aggressive" or "fast". They have some of the best valving in the industry. My time attack miata ran KWs for a while with softer spring rates than spec miatas and was significantly faster. To me, they are one of the best options for street/track applications. Go search for them on www.motoiq.com for more technical info.

The other option to consider is AST. I confirmed with them earlier this week that my set is currently being built in Holland and will be here in a couple weeks. Their new 4150 series incorporates brand new updates to valving and technology. The FR-S/BR-S system will be the first platform with these updates. looking forward to getting them.

We are working with KW on our custom valved and custom sprung RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers for this chassis. They're based on KW V3s but a little more track oriented (though still very streetable). The 2008 SCCA STU National championship car was running our RCE T2s for Impreza, so it's a capable system we're eager to build for the BRZ/FRS. It's not a quick process that we're rushing through, but the extra time to get valving and spring rates down is something we are happy to do.

Standard KWs are very, very good, which is why we chose them as a starting point for our customized sets. Working with KW to turn things up a notch for our more hardcore customers just gets us something a little more capable on the track with our T2s. We also generally offer a softer version that's a little more street friendly. :)

By no means do we insist that they are the "best" for all users and that is why we continue to offer other great options like AST, Ohlins, Bilstein, JRZ, etc. We like to try things out before we sell them so we can best match people with a system that's right for them. That means that we aren't really offering coilovers just yet, but fairly soon we'll have a wide variety that we have hands on experience with.

Cusco make fine quality coilovers that we used to offer early on in our history, but we've moved in a different direction for a variety of reasons.

- Andrew

I had the best experience with the inverted struts on my Evo V so I'm wondering if you know that if there will be an offering of an inverted struts for the FR-S?

I had a bad experience with Tanabe in the past, I still have a set of WRX Sustec Pro RRs sitting on my shelf with one of them blown. That was 5 years ago, at the time there was basically no recourse for me to get it rebuilt, Tanabe USA didn't want anything to do with it and contacting someone in Japan was impossible.

Bilstein and Ohlins will have inverted front struts for their coilovers. It's a good feature, but IMO not a "must have" since many top coilovers do not run inverted struts.

- Andrew

This is killing me....

Coilovers or RCE springs (and upgrade the dampers later)?

Is there any word on if/when Bilstein is coming out with some products? That's what i'm waiting for.

Yes, no ETA though. There usually not the quickest to come out with stuff, but we've been talking with them. :)

- Andrew

In your experience how do the Bilsteins compare to KW v3's? Just for street/daily use mainly.

Both very good with proper spring rates.

The Bilsteins are "easier" in that they have only 1 knob to play with, which some prefer for easier set-up and adjustment. KW V3 more "flexible" with separate compression and rebound adjustment knobs, which others prefer because you can dial them in a little more to your liking (if you're up to it). Big bumps are handled reeeally well with Bilsteins, whereas smaller imperfections are handled a little nicer with KW's. These are big generalizations and it depends on application. In the end both are very good for street and DD use.

- Andrew

I have the Cusco Street Zero A coilovers on my Scion FR-S and I have to tell you ...Im in love with these things!!! They are 40 way adjustable and the knobs are easy to get to in the engine bay and trunk.... I set mine 20/20 to start out and right off the bat the handling was not only tighter but smoother over bumps....you have to leave the vehicle in VSC sport mode though because if not the vsc always kicks in around tight corners....I used donahoe racing coilovers on my TRD Tundra and was impressed with what the aftermarket can do to improve suspension...I would highly recommend this product if you want to take an already amazing handling car and kick it up a notch without sacrificing an adequately smooth ride.

Being very honest here I cannot, and will not just give the information away. I can't. I've done it before and I've gotten burned. This is how I make a living, and I highly doubt any of you like to do go to work, help someone figure out their stuff then have your office mate get paid for your work.

I am open with information (ask Scooby South). But I can't just spew that information around on the web.

As for packages.... I've got the KW's on the website along with Whiteline mounts, etc. And that's what I'm running on the car. As for the tweaks I'd do or recommend I'd be happy to talk about that with you guys person to person, and of course customers of mine are privy to all the information.

Thats fair man..."You buy the coilovers from me...i give you the custom setup specs"...fair deal....im sick of grinders who will ask the world from you and go buy somewhere else to save a few measly bucks...you can buy from anywhere but when you buy from someone who takes pride in their work and gives a fair price you get the service after the sale and someone who can help you with any random question you might have on top of getting a fair price...I pay for service and I buy local...is it maybe slightly more expensive? yes, but not by enough to justify being a weasel....I don't ask for something for nothing and I dont work for free....thats the way America used to be...now since our attention shifted to price only! cost only! we have shipped our jobs overseas, Walmart has taken over small mom and pop shops, and you now deal with know-nothing salespeople that used to work at Dennys because sales professionals who take pride in their job have either moved on to greener pastures or are too busy with their own pool of loyal customers

I appreciate you understanding *exactly* where I'm coming from on that front. It's a fine line to offer helpful advice and be a fool who gets used for the information that takes time and money to figure out. I'm new to this site, I think largely we all are. Forums I've been on a long time I "know" how it works, but I'm learning my way here.

Walmart is right, happened last week where someone wanted what I had (and they didn't) but didn't want to pay me a very fair price because he found it cheaper somewhere else. That other place doesn't have my track record, and still didn't have the parts. The trouble is people think if they buy the same thing it doesn't matter from where, but it does. Internet businesses that don't have a real building, taxes, equipment, etc, have less overhead and are often run "on the side" of real jobs. My business is not one of those.

I tell folks all the time. I probably won't ever be the cheapest, but I'm also never the most expensive. And value for you dollar goes beyond the bottom line. I don't buy my trucks from a super dealer, I get them from the place that has never given me any hassle on trades or warranty work.

Well honestly that's fine but for myself I would want to know the vendor/shop/etc knew the info and be straight forward. Some on this board like Perrin and Racecomp have caught my eye as some vendors that are very informative and helpful to the community, therefore when it's the time to buy a specific item they might carry I would consider them. I wouldn't have even thought about them but they caught my eye as well as being very active and knowledgeable so I would trust them over just any typical vendor that sells the same items as them.

Im waiting on Ohlins to bring out there kit....... Especially something more specific to track/drift

I think I've been active, and considering I quite literally work alone, that's not easy to do in the midst of everything else I do in the course of a day. I have no staff to field phone calls, or sell lots of volume to get big quantity discounts, etc. So, I can't work in the same way as some others do.

As for knowledge, I've got it, and have results to prove I know how to setup cars. In fact I can say with 100% certainty that I probably have more knowledge on RWD, limited slip equipped cars than most anyone you'll find on these sites. My current "other car" is a C6 Z06, which is sort of RWD and high powered. In fact I've always had and preferred RWD cars with some punch, ranging from a 280ZXTurbo that wasn't stock to a '91 1LE Camaro to my 2001 Camaro, to my 2007 Mustang GT, to my 2011 5.0 Mustang... add my old 325is BMW too that list as well. And that's just the stuff I had before the FR-S.

Now you seem to be working under the misconception that I'm not willing to talk. Not true. But until you walk a mile in my shoes and get used for information that others don't have and can't have given that they don't do what I do in terms of autocross with proven results, it's not really possible for me to just tell the world "do this". And fwiw, there is another reason.... NOT EVERYONE WILL HAVE THE SAME WANTS AND NEEDS. And I work on a more individual basis, and I've noticed that very often when I say something on the web, it somehow becomes the only thing I ever think and apparently I'll set everyone up the same way. That's pretty pathetic, but it happens. It's on the web that you said X, Sam... Well, ok I might well have and that recommendation was made for Billy Joe Smith for *his* needs, that's not what I'd do for Johnnie Bob Jones necessarily....

If you don't want to give me a chance, that's fine. But I think it's a bit unfair. And fwiw, I have access to Perrin, and Whiteline, and Ohlins, and any number of other part lines that are popular in the Subaru world. There isn't much on the site yet because I'm just moving into to these (because I have freaking have one being a big reason). While you might find me most closely associated with pony-cars and Corvettes, I do lots of things. I sold a set of Ohlins to a customer with an RX8, I've sold them for STi's, and Evo's. I did a set of shocks for a customer of mine for his Suburban today. I'm not one trick pony. And I just did a deal with Nameless Performance to carry their stuff, something I never had reason to do before.

As I stated before. I know I'm not for everyone, I frankly don't want to be. I am too damned busy for my own mental health now. I'm a car guy. I own one of these, I have for a month now. I'm developing swaybars for it already, which isn't easy being the epitome of a *small business*. I can only do what I do, the way I know to do it. If you want honest advice, I'm good at it. I'm blunt (which also upsets some folks because I don't sugar coat things very much), and I want to know what you are trying to do or change about the car before recommending parts so I feel comfortable with the recommendation I'm making.

There are absolutely other companies out there, many good, some crappy... And a lot of us sell similar or even the same parts. The difference is in what the person knows, and how they know it, and what they do with it.

Sam... so glad to see you hear. You probably don't me, but I know you from the NNJR auto-x scene.

This guy knows his stuff people and he's always on point.

The cusco product that compares to the KW V3 is not a monotube design but it does come with pillowballs. I decided i would go with KW V3'S even though they dont come with pillowballs and just got some vorschlag camber plates.

I think this is actually a parallel that hurts your argument. I believe that Perrin has even said they will post the gains of their products in development, but they weren't posting all the specs to keep a competitive advantage. As someone who has made money (but not a living) doing chassis set up as well, it makes sense to not give away everything for free. One of my best friends is an aero engineer and gets hit up for advice all the time on facebook, etc. He won't give info out for free either - otherwise why would people pay for the service? (or why would the people who ARE paying not feel cheated that others got the info for free) Same could be said for people who tune the ECU of your car. They'll give generic info away, but most won't tell you exactly what they do or why they did it, or you won't need to pay them. Of course once you become a paying customer, the kimono opens.

The line between "tuner shops" that are selling parts, and "race shops" that sell expertise and have intellectual property.

Matt

I would go with KW V3's from what I have seen and experienced at the track.

How about the HKS Hipermax IV compared to the two other? They are in the same price range, but have lower spring rate rear.

I am also biased on Bilstein from previous experience, but my patience with air gaps might run out.