Detonation issue when throttle blip or gear shifting
 

Hi, my name is Gustavo, i'm an architect from Chile, nice to meet all of you!!

From one day to another, my car start to do the same noise as the video posted here in the forum from other user some years ago .... that other brz/frs have listened in their cars.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44851

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vMa_CDXROYI[/ame]

I searched on the web and i dont find any answer. On the topic link before, anyone solved the issue, that why i created a new topic.

My dealer cant reproduce the issue (is so easy to do that when the car is hot, blipping the throttle in neutral when the car is moving or even sometime when shift gear, but when the car is no moving, there is no sound and all is ok). The sound really piss me off, my BRZ is only 8000 miles, without mods, i have been very carefull with the car, never track day or anything like that.

Here in Chile the BRZ is not a cheap car, i was really in love about all of that de BRZ represent and i traded my beloved Civic SI 2010 for the Subbie, but in this moment i'm really heartbroken.

Did you solved the issue with your car??

If you do, please help me :)

I use 98 ron, new synthetic oil (5w-30) and new intake filter (oem) last week (desler service). I think that there is a vtc problem traying to adjust the timing (the rare thing is that the "cracking" issue happen only whenyou blip the car when is moving, in neutral, when shifting or when you give a fast gas blip in 5th o 6th (maybe happen on the other gears to), but no CEL or even a code in memory.


Thank!!!:w00t:

Backfire issue. If you over rev it always does that. The tshht turbo/sc sound is just WOT.

If you really want us to share what we think is wrong... i'd say it could be due to :

1) you're running rich issue
2) Carb issue
3) Gasket issue
4) Spark plug issue


El sonido que hace que suena como turbo es acelerador que habre la valvula de aire o el platillo de aire "intake" de el motor.

Ahora, el sonido que truena es porque tu motor esta absorbiendo demasiado aire/gas y no lo puede quemar. Tambien podria ser tu convertidor de smog o el filtro que esta dentro de tu exhaust.

Mi carro tambien lo hace de vez en cuando. Tiene todo lo del dealer 'stock' sin que le haiga metido mano o de TRD del dealer.


Limpia el sensor de MAF. Es normal en mi carro. No te preocupes a menos que tengas un leak en el manifold/exhaust. Podria ser que necitas un gasket.


Hey guys, is there a gasket that connects our exhaust manifold to our exhaust? I havent checked for that.

Friend says to: check O2 sensor and test fuel pressure.

P.S. video sound of intake doesnt sound like stock intake.

Thanks for your reply, Packofcrows!!

I have some questions:

Really a dirty maf can make my car "cracking" noise (detonation) when blipping in neutral or downshifting? I will clean it tomorrow and see what happen.

The car of the video is a supercharged one, my is absolutly standar and only 8000 miles. Its a 7000 rpm car engine design, and i have reached that peak very often on overtaking or fast acelerations, like with my former dohc-vtec Honda (never an issue with it, excelent car).... But with a really good care.

I agree that this engine is full of noises, almost normal in a boxer layout (this is my 4th subbie, all NA), but knocking on blipping throttle is to much for me in a new car (expensive one in my country).... That why i'm pretty sad.

Saludos!!!

:lol: Do we have carbs? or do you mean a Carb tune?

When you clean make sure you use the appropriate cleaner like CRC maf and throttle body cleaner.

Also I really hope it's not the DI popping issue:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnFa2IvNs9g"]Frs popping noise when given throttle free revving or cruising, rolling on throttle to pass. - YouTube[/ame]



That happened in the past when I first started on the forum when people had to replace the seals under warranty which to do yourself is pretty invasive:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdeO4rBwuQ4"]Scion FR-S BRZ Direct Injector Seal Replacement | Problems and Issues - YouTube[/ame]


It also would apparently get exacerbated by forced induction which is sounds like you have a supercharger.

Not sure what I even meant with that.... I think I meant catalytic converter.... urgh lol i'm tired

I think its just wot.

No biggie, just curious. I'm leaning personally towards it being DI popping or something because that happened on throttle as well hopefully it's not

Thanks for your reply!!!:thumbsup:


Is not the DI, not sound like the video that you post me..... it sound exactly like the first video in the intro of the topic in the same condition of testing (car in movement, neutral and throttle blip)....0:04 in the video.... And when the car is no moving, there is no sound of knocking or cracking even in hard thottle blipping, and that is the really rare thing: knock when moving, no knock when no moving, that why i think is a sensor or electronic issue (related with the speed sensor or vss lecture).

Saludos!!!

OK that clears it up good luck finding the issue!

How old is car what year model would you know the ECU calibration id like ZA1JA00G or similar

if your car is early calibration id their was errer in ecu with transient ignition retard causing knock.

If you have octane booster available try that and see if noise goes away this will confim it detonation or knock


we have rubbish petrol here and on stock tune car can knock or ping quite badly especially on hot day

knock will sound like metallic rattle bit like stones in a tin can or rattling a bunch of keys

Indeed, there are a few gaskets.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53135

I know that the engine is able to run up to 7k rpm but do you really need to bounce it off the limiters? The hp and torque curves cross at about 5300rpm, everything after that is kind of unnecessary because you're not getting much benefit but you are adding undue wear to internal parts (like the garbage tob in these trannys.) I'm not saying that I don't end up into the low 6's occasionally but I can feel the benefits falling off by the time it gets there.

wut :bonk:

My sentiment exactly wut?:bonk:

I see your point, but if you are driving your car like that, maybe you must trade it for turbo one :cheers:.... The brz frs gt86 brothers become alive at 5k rpm to 7.2 k rpm.


Thanks all for your replies!!!

I 'm still wondering what happens with my car. If you can help me with the services bullettin, my car is MY2013.

Next week i'm going to drive it to the subaru importer in chile, my car is under warranty and all the services done by them..... If they solve the problem, i'm going to write here the feedback.....But this issue is kiling my love for the BRZ:brokenheart::brokenheart: , and i'm really starting thinking trade it for another car (not subbie)

SALUDOS Y GRACIAS!!:w00t::w00t:

So many fallacies in there its unbelievable... Please explain how revving the engine will cause wear on the TOB... I would love to hear your logic on that... Also I'm amazed you can feel the difference from the torque lowering smoothly by a few pounds... Do you also feel the minute changes in air pressure and the small variances of oxygen % in the air you breathe from one breath to another?


Are you god?

Hi everybody!!

Well, i´m going to tell you about my car in the last weeks:

Still have the issue.:cry::cry:

At the importer service garage, they have been searching the cause for 3 weeks, but nothing happened. All the parameters are OK in the computer, no CEL o registers.... every sensors or actuators are doing right. Last friday they reflashed my BRZ with a new software (send from japan), bay the Knocking sound is still there in the same conditions (testing) that i described to you in the begining.

Tomorrow they going to try changing the knock sensors, but i´m loosing my hope about solve the problem.

So, what can i do??

I been searching almost all the web seeking for answers, but anybody knows something (or anybody replies my questions, like the owner of the video with the supercharged FT).

I ´m really thinking about trade the BRZ for another car, maybe a WRX (but now Subaru has lost my faith on them), a Renault Megane RS Trophy 265 (yes, is a french car and i dont trust them like a japanese one), a VW Golf GTI MKVII (really good car, well built and great equipment, but not fast enought)........ and if i can save some money, maybe a BMW M135i (amazing, but to expensive).

.......... but any of that options caught my feeling and cars s´passion like the BRZ, that why i´m so mad and sad.

If anyone suspect anything about this issue, please help me.

SALUDOS!!

Well you shouldn't hate on the car, or subaru engines or japanese cars in general, because you slapped a supercharger on it....

hmmmm...........the way I read the OP in his post #3, is that his car is stock.

(the car in the vid he references is FI)

;)


humfrz

I do not know the answer to your problem but I will tell you something that I found odd. Oil. You are using a heavier oil (5W30). I know what you are thinking, a thicker oil must protect the engine better since its more resist to heat right? Well, it is also harder to lubricate the engine with it. There is a post in this forum with some tests results trying different oil types. Short answer, use 0W20, always. If you need extra cooling, get an oil cooler, dont put a thicker oil in it. Also, I lived in Chile for 7 years, I know gas can sometimes be really crappy, 98ron is the bare minimum the car needs to run and can sometimes cause knock (early detonation) if quality isnt top notch. I think you may have a combination of a worn down engine (oil possibly) and very shitty gas.

Im affraid the mechanics wont probably find anything wrong with the car and you will be left hunting unicorns. Try an octane booster as suggested earlier in the thread and also try going back to the stock 0W20 oil (and always synthetic, that shouldnt even be a question, you shouldnt even need to mention it).

Hi!!

My car is standar, no mods, only 8000 miles..... that why i´m pretty mad and sad with it, and why i´m loosing my faith in Subaru.

:(:(

Thanks!!

The oil is the one that use Subaru Service in Chile, they have done the oil change in the maintenance service.......... but i see your point and i going to tell them obout it.

Subaru recomend 95 (RON), but i always use 97 V-Power (close to 98 RON) on my cars. Maybe here the gas is not that good, and that why the car present the issue, but there are no "examples" of the issue in the WRX (FA20 Turbo) in Chile (or my ex-Civic Si K20Z3)...........about that, today call me the shop manager to tell me some "good" news: Another 3 BRZ went for the service (30000 kms, my is only 12000 kms), so they tested them to compare and the 3 cars present the issue, only the owners never notice the knocking sound.... and the manager suggested that maybe is "normal" (Subaru Japan said that is a normal sound too..... and believe me, I never had a car with that kind of "normal" sound and i truely did not want to buy a jingle bell.... pretty sad).

Well, tomorrow they going to try changing the knock sensors.... i really, really hope, crossing finger, that became the solution.

BY!!!

Alright, good luck for tomorrow's change then. By the way, because of the hybrid system (Port injection and direct injection), this engines make some very weird and changing noises. The detonation is not normal of course, but many other noises that you wouldnt call normal and that are not present on other cars (including the FA20DIT) are actually totally normal. Shell gas should be good enough, but make sure you gas where many other people do, gasoline that isnt fresh can degrade and perform as a lower grade one (I know a lot of people dont put premium gas on their cars, specially over there with the gas prices so high, so altho they renew the lower grade ones, the 97 might actually be there for weeks or even months before they refill).

Anyways, good luck with your car, and dont give up on it, its such a nice car! (and like totally take it to the track if you can, not for drag racing but for circuit or autocross, at least once, you will most likely love the experience and learn a lot about car control).

Hi!!

Its been a long time, but here are the results of all the test doing to me BRZ:

No issue (LOL).

Subaru dealer didn´t find what was going wrong, and the BRZ still has the issue, so I decided to sold it. it was a very sad moment, I really thought to keep my BRZ for 5 year, but the detonation get over me, especially if you think that the car was almost new and always standar (i don´t even changed the air filter to a performace one).

Well, I said goodbye to my beloved RWD japan car and almost signed for a new WRX, but when the new WRX recall for the wrecked plastic intake and the DIT issues, plus the clutch troubles and other minors problems, I decided to walk away from Subaru for now (maybe a couples of years) and I bought a 2015 Renault Megane RS Cup trophy with 265 HP.

What i get??
265HP and 360NM TQ
LSD mechanical
Brembo brakes
Recaro seats
A great performance in one of the best hot hatch of this time
A really well equiped car (all the gadgets)
No DIT (it has MPI)
No plastic intake (an aluminium one)
Twin Scroll Turbo

First I was worried about Renault problems history, but the asociation with Nissan tranformed Renault in a really good car maker, and the RS has no issues (in my internet search i only found very low percents of minor problems).

That the end of the story. I´ll wait for the WRX, but when Subaru make an upgrade to their engines quality, like the old times.

Thanks!!!

Good on ya, @ARQ-VTEC

:)


humfrz

Well that's as good a fix as any :lol: