Good News Concerning the D4-S Boxer!
 

Quoted from Moto-P himself off of club4ag. Heres the topic thread if you want to check it out:http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=60965

Although Moto sites no official source for this information, he HIMSELF, is a credible source of information on this car. If anyone remembers my saying, Moto was brought to Japan by Toyota to discuss this car and what he, and us AE86/4A-GE fanatics, would like to see out of the car. Such is his renown as a Toyota fan here in the states.

This information made me extremely happy, as I was concerned the use of a boxer engine wouldn't really revive the feel of the old school traditional Toyota DOHC engines. But from what he's saying, it'll feel much like our beloved 4A-GE.

This is my reaction to this news, if it is in fact true.

:cry:

I'd say bring the tears. Moto has more experience with this car, as an outside enthusiast, than anyone else I'd venture to say.

And he wouldn't say something like that unless it was true.

My reaction, of course, is
:party0030:

:thanks::party0030::happyanim::clap::wub:

Dear Aftermarket,

Please make a set of UEL headers so this sounds like a proper boxer engine.

Regards,
Bochet

I can see this being a popular mod as some people love the sound of a boxer rumble.

To each their own.

Need more people to respond to this. I think Toyota fans are severely outnumbered by boxer junkies on these forums.

Funny i felt the complete opposite as you AE86 guys always gang up on me, lol.:thumbsup:

To me it depends on whether or not the car is boosted; because of the power difference. An UEL would be a downgrade as far as power goes, but it may not amount to much in a naturally aspirated car.

Even if so, I'm not into the idea of spending money to decrease power, even if only by a fraction. I'm sure I'll enjoy the sound of the car with improved piping anyway. If I want boxer rumble, well... that's what I have my 'rex for! :party0030:

We AE86 guys stick together.

The few, the proud, the mar-err, insane.

true, thats what i love the most about AE86 people we all help each other its like motorcycle riders when they see each other on the road they are given a thumbs up, a smile and a head nod. for the sound i dont really care about it, im more on performance i dont judge the car by sound i judge them by numbers i want to see what time its making in the nur ring, how many sec 0-60mph, slalom speed, cornering speed, g-force rate, 60-0 brake distance and more.

huh? EL header and UEL head has almost no difference in HP/TQ. In turbo is waste of money to make UEL header, cuz of turbo.

IIRC in NA, UEL header had power in the low end, while EL has power in high end. EL or UEL, it all depends in if you want the boxer engine sound and which one you want the power in Low or High end.

I believe this to be untrue. With an EL manifold, you are going to create more HP per PSI in a turbo application.

Not sure about the NA application, but I would assume the gains/losses are marginal.

If thats what you meant, sorry for the post!

No worries. Yup you got my Engrish correct. :bellyroll:
Turbo, there's no point making an UEL header. It's just waste of money.

K i am not familiar with boxer engines what is the difference between UEL headers and El headers and what they all about. aal i know is impreza?sti sound like its choking or sputtering.

i would hope it sounds tight and responsive, that's the sign of a well engineered piece of machinery, to me atleast.

it sounded great in the tokyo show

UEL - unequal length header

EL - Equal Length header

a UEL manifold is *usually* cheaper to produce, however, an EL header will make more power per PSI that the turbo is spooling. The UEL is are also famous for their "subaru rumble".

However, for the application that subaru is using it in, I dont think we will see an EL header, based on cost/HP. Yes, the EL will make more power, but EL manifolds usually tend to cost a lot more money.

Unequal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaCeufSecas

Equal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoXkm8i-S4I

You have to take into account that these aren't the same exact engines, but the one with the equal length headers is much smoother sounding. As they said above, like an inline-4.

Huh why? All the Subie boxer engine come with EL header stock. UEL header is after market part (like my Subie).

And correct in the EL header in Turbo. In NA, they don't make difference. EL header doesn't make more HP than UEL and vis versa. It's just the maker's quality that makes the header HP difference.

k thanks bro

I have no idea what either is supposed to sound like. I'm a VTEC junkie so that's pretty much all I know.

Hahaha, my point was proven. This turned from a topic concerning the engine sound and its characteristics into a boxer engine header discussion.:bellyroll:

Oh yeah, V-TEC. Quite similar to my cars T-VIS system. You can even hear the note change when the butterflies open (4200rpm).

Yeah, that system that Toyota came out with ~8 years before Honda. *cough*

Sorry, I rub it in every VTEC fans face.:respekt:

I'm still hoping for a high rpm motor with something simular to i-vtec or vvtl-i

Really, I thoght Mitsubishi was the first (MIVEC). Hm... I learned something new. :)

I know English is not your first language, but I still don't understand what you're trying to say here. With a boosted EJ2x, there *is* a power difference between EL and UEL header, and in the case of performance, it's EL > UEL.

This is what I also said; that I didn't see the point in spending money in a useless part.

Incorrect. WRXs and STIs come stock with an UEL.

Again, this is what I was eluding to in my original post.

T-VIS was introduced with the 4A-GE found in the, you guessed it, AE86, back in 1983. Thats a good 9 years before MIVEC.

Its just something I say to people that bring up VTEC all the time (not a shot at you S2K). The systems pretty much provide the same end result (a smoother powerband) but in much different ways. The real Toyota version of VTEC is actually, of course, VVTL-i. T-VIS actually doesn't have anything to do with the valves. It involves messing around with the intake runners via a butterfly valve system.

I'm certainly not an engineer so please look up all the information if you want, I could be wrong on some points. But I'm pretty sure I got the basics of the setup.

Actually TVIS was developed to improve low-end torque, whereas VTEC was made to improve high end power, if I'm not mistaken?

:word:

Unfortunately, I'm really unhappy with the direction Honda/Acura has been heading which is why I'm looking elsewhere for my next car. Unless I happen to find a really good condition Integra GSR/TypeR somewhere. Highly unlikely since people around my way beat the shit out of their cars.

I don't blame you. Honda was my entry point into this wonderful import car world, and their cars of late have been shit. This latest Si has been too little, too late; the RSX was canned; the S2k now canned with no real successor in sight; the NSX successor has been on again, off again (and they weren't going to make it even MR!); the new TSX is uglier and not more powerful, the Accords keep getting fatter...

Honda is going to find out just what Toyota is now starting to. Lose the enthusiast market, and it will eventually make its way into the general public perception as well.

man I never even liked the TSX. That's when Acura decided to change their target audience and wanted a more mature sophisticated image to compete with BMW and Lexus. And the TSX is their entry level model. They should have kept the Integra/RSX. I'd still take a DC2 over a DC5 tho.

This is a good comparison of UEL vs EL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrLasJvUwZE

i like the clean sound of inline 4s way better than the boxer burble!

agreed though the rumble could take some getting use to

hell no! that rumble is a great characteristic of the sub motor!

they basically do the same thing: allow for different intake flow characteristics for different RPM's. both allow for a more "normal" low RPM torque curve, and then allow for better-breathing high-RPM operation. more torque and more power. :) different ways to achieve the effect, but still going after the same thing.

-Mike

Agreed... I love the sound of B18.

Don't forget to include Subaru's TGV (Tumble Generator Valves) and their camshaft phasing technology.

Just like TVIS, TGV gets ripped out to make big power. Let's hope the new car doesn't have it.

I like the boxer rumble, but I'd give it up to make power. BTW, the best sounding engines have an offbeat rumble (Harley Davidson) or have a whole bunch of cylinders (Ferrari V12).

Going back to the original post...did anybody understand the part about the intake runners? It sounded like the engine might use both long and short intake runners. That's sort of like TVIS, but each runner would feed both intake valves instead of switching between one valve (swirl) and both valves (tumble).

EDIT: I just re-read it and I think he confused me by using the word "runner" instead of "primary". Runner is an intake manifold term.

well subie also has AVCS: http://www.drive.subaru.com/Win05_WhatsInside.htm but that's been around since 2005sh i think

I'm not sure why disguising the sound of the engine so it sounds like something it's not is considered good news. If it's got a flat-4, then I want it to sound like a flat-4.

yeah, my car doesn't have any TVIS hardware any more. i'm not making as much power as i'd like, but that's another story... :mad0260:

i honestly don't think i'd want the FT to sound like a subaru UEL header boxer. everytime i started my car, i'd look around for the WRX/STI near by, and then be confused by its absense. :) my GF's MY07 2.5i w/ Prodrive round tip sounds FANTASTIC, and no real hint of the boxer rumble. i'd want something like that for this car, but smaller and more rev-happy.

-Mike