Take the fastest Time Attack Unlimited AWD vs. FR vs. FF. Rado's tC doesn't even break the top 10 fastest times. Give me the Sierra Sierra Enterprises Evo 8 or the FX NSX over Rado's tC any day please.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/...cc2207924f.jpg


http://photos.motoiq.com/photos/665058894_j3LHV-M.jpg

That is a lame excuse since other cars in the FF don't have crazy spoilers on their hood. Take Heinricy's Cobalt or Evanson's Civic.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2274/...210daa45c5.jpg


http://image.automotive.com/f/featur...t_overhead.jpg

Yep no hood mounted spoilers even though they were putting out some serious power for their weight.

Yea , agree on that . I've driven a honda myself so i'm not hating on the brand or scion for that matter . It's also because most ricers can't afford cars like evo's-supra etc . So they buy a honda for cheap and spend their cash on cheap parts just so they can play too .

tranzformer did. Lol. and you agreed with him in a way. You newbies all sound the same.

Forgive me for being casual, it just ticks me off when someone tries decides to disrespect a culture in japan. Then again, what should I expect, apparently bosozoku is a car designer according to you.

Maybe I should use more smiley so your half dead brain can understand.

Could not agree with you more....Toyota bailed on the car totally!

You don't need to go with the personal attacks.

If you like bosozoku, that is fine. But why do you need to argue with someone who thinks it doesn't look good? Aesthetics are a personal thing. There is no objective measure for that like say car performance 0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed...etc. So why you so taken aback by people not likeing "bosozoku"? I bet there are things I like that you don't. No need to get ticked off.

I personally dont like it. But w/e. Im not in the mood to argue. Go on with your discussions..

Damn, sucks to be you! :bellyroll:

There is not another single FWD car on this planet that moves like theirs. Those other fast cars do so with different drivetrains. The WR tC is constantly top 5 fastest cars on the track. You said it was ricer, not much of a point can be taken from that.






World Racing's tC smashed those cars dude, what's your point? The GM cobalt pictured above held the lap record for 5yrs at Willow Springs I think it was. Rado's tC came and smashed it by 2+ secs. The Civic pictured doesn't even come close to Rado's times dude.

:threadjacked:



:popcorn:

This thread has gone so far off the rails it's not even funny, but I can't stop checking in just to see what's said next.

Huh? I told you the name of them both (Forged Performance GTR and Crawford Performance GTR). Typed that into google and instant articles...:iono:


FP GTR
http://onfinite.com/libraries/1543434/8d8.jpg

You are probably one of those guys who say a wing on a FWD car is not functional.

"Rice" = Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancement. If it's functional, how on earth is it Rice?

I know you didn't know what you were talking about before....NOW you just sealed the envelope.

AMS Evo X and the Serra Serra Evo were turning a 1:01-1:02 lap time at my local track Nashville Super Speedway.

The track record is held by the AMS Evo X here with a 1:01 lap time. Rado's tC still FWD ran a 1:03 sec lap time. Don't talk to me about lap times when you don't even follow them or have the fortitude to go look them up.

www.TimeAttackForums.com is your FRIEND....now go research.

Exactly, but there are other FR and AWD cars that move a lot quicker than theirs. Whats your point?




Point was there were plenty of other fast FF cars during their time that didn't need a front wing. Sure a car that is 5-10 years newer is faster. I wouldn't expect anything else. If it was the same speed as a car raced in 2000-2005 that would be sad.

We are obviously going way off topic and neither of us are going to convince each other. I will leave it at that unless you want the final word go at it. Otherwise I am done with that this particular topic in this particular thread.

Yeah ok. Now I know to really ignore you. Thanks for the fun time on this thread.

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7...10414at555.png



http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/784...10414at554.png


http://superlapbattle.com/blog/records/

Rado's 1:49.703 doesn't make the top 10. You might be going off some other times, but I was going off of these.

http://superlapbattle.com/blog/wp-co..._7437-copy.jpg

May not be on the hood, but it's still a crazy spoiler set up lol.

They are "suppose" to that's the point. And how much faster do they move...2-3secs at most tracks. How fast does Rado move from his nearest FWD competition....usually 5-8secs.





When you want to go faster than everyone else, you don't do exactly the same things they do. Those "plenty of other fast FF cars" are fast for them, but they aren't even close to Rado's. Rado's times are close to the top FR and AWD cars, not the top FF cars.

And are you serious....age has nothing to do with it. How old is FXMD's NSX? Yet it holds lap records alongside newer AWD cars like the R35. It's about the cars development not it's age dude. Why do you continue to talk about a subject you are obviously lacking knowledge in?

1:49.703 IN 2009!!!! And that's all time at ONE track.

In 2008 his tC looked like this:

http://www.world-racing.com/images/0.../images/73.jpg

Just some more data to end this stupid debate. Top Scion tC didn't even break into the top 20. It ended up at.....wait for it....wait for it.... 40 out of 42. Out of the 5 records broken 0 were tC all of them were Evos, STI, NSX or a 1G Eclipse. Nada on the Scion.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5...10414at729.png





Look forward to your excuses.



Google, it is your friend.

Still wasn't faster than the other cars in the top 10 from 2009. What is your point?

Did you read my post? I said A CAR RACED IN 2000 to 2005. Not the age of a car. When it was raced. A team should constantly be developing and improving its car's performance each year. If it doesn't, they will get passed up. What are you trying to say? That a top NSX raced in 1999 is faster than a top NSX raced in 2011? Ok. :bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll: Dude every year race cars get faster. Every year they get faster irregardless the year of the car itself they are racing.

YET again....ONE track. I'll pull up ONE track for you since we can make a statement with One track.

Mark Daddio owns the lap record here: 1:01.296

RESULTS:

Overall:
Mark Daddio - AMS Performance/NOS Energy Mitsubishi Evo X - 1:01.296

Unlimited AWD:
1 Mark Daddio - AMS Performance/NOS Energy Mitsubishi Evo X - 1:01.296

Unlimited RWD:
1 Jeff Ricca - 240SX Motoring Nissan 240SX - 1:08.399
2 Ramana Lagemann - DSG/BFG/Stance/Direct Tire Nissan 240SX - 1:08.401

Unlimited FWD:
1 Chris Rado - World Racing Scion tC - 1:03.084
2 Kurt Kelley - Divine Motorsports Honda Civic - 1:11.994
3 Michael Stimac - FWD Performance Dodge Daytona - 1:14.174

Modified AWD:
1 Ryan Gates - Gates311.com/AMS Performance Mitsubishi Evo X - 1:04.460
2 James Elterman - Takata Time Attack Subaru STI - 1:07.230
3 Sharif Abdelbaset - Forged Performance Nissan R35 GTR - 1:07.516

Modifed RWD:
1 Thomas Hiromoto - Fuji Racing Mazda Miata - 1:12.303
2 George Loveday - Dodge Viper - 1:13.247



I don't Need to Google it, I just sign into my Time Attack forums account. The next Unlimited Class FF is 8 Seconds slower....

It's FWD compared to the other RWD/AWD layouts...what's your point?


So to be clear on this, you are arguing about the way it looks and using your sound expert opinion it doesn't need a wing on the front to be fast as other cars and you use RWD and AWD cars as an example of your "expertise" on building track cars and racing them....lol. Ok. Was it fast without the wing sure. Is it faster with the wing...yep...case closed.



BY THE WAY.....YOU CAN'T READ: 40th place says what again? CRAWFORD Performance 2011 Scion tC....It has a stock freaking motor dude and running in LIMITED CLASS!!!!! Be sure next time you pick an image with World Racing's Time on it.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5...10414at729.png




Guess when you want information done right, you don't rely on people who don't know what they are doing.


Current Buttonwillow Track Records
These times are from Redline Time Attack and Super Lap Battle races only.

Overall:
David Empringham - Sierra Sierra Enterprises Mitsubishi Evo VIII - 1:41.046 @ 2010 Super Lap Battle Finals

Overall Super Modified/Unlimited Class:
David Empringham - Sierra Sierra Enterprises Mitsubishi Evo VIII - 1:41.046 @ 2010 Super Lap Battle Finals

Overall Modified/Limited Class:
JC Meynet - Harman Motive/AQ Motorsports Subaru STI - 1:48.550 @ 2010 Super Lap Battle Finals

Overall Street Class:
Martin Musial - AMS Performance Mitsubishi Evolution X - 1:55.810 @ 2010 Super Lap Battle Finals

Overall AWD:
David Empringham - Sierra Sierra Enterprises Mitsubishi Evo VIII - 1:41.046 @ 2010 Super Lap Battle Finals

Overall RWD:
Billy Johnson - FXMD Acura NSX - 1:41.949 @ 2010 Super Lap Battle Finals

Overall FWD:
Chris Rado - World Racing Scion tC - 1:46.736 @ 2010 Redline Time Attack



NOW go compare that time to the list you posted above about Rado not even making it top 10. He would technically be in 9th place bumping Tyler in the S2k off the list and pushing Paul in the AMS/NOS Evo X down to 10th.

Now we can get off the subject.

NOOBS...I swear...

@Dragon & Tranz

All the posts are interest, but it's going off topic. Yeah we usually go off topic... but I think it got off topic way way out of it.

p.s.
@Dragon
I see your point and do agree w you on this off topic. I think, he doesn't get how Redline Time Attack system actually works.

:laughabove: hard to talk down on someone when you use words like irregardless. dont get me wrong, i hate rado, his tc and his stupid sideburns as much as the next guy but he was a great drag racer put in an amazing car that is absolutely not ricer.

Yeah, I've spent to much energy on this and I have to get some work done.. I think he has some knew knowledge from all of this though....I would hope so at least.

Kinda disappointed that it came out as a Scion, but eh... figures that it would.

Though I seriously hope the concept in New York doesn't turn out something as ugly as this one photoshop guessed at a Scion version FT-86 from a while back...

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets...scion_fr-s.jpg

:thumbdown:

got bored after page 3. turn to page 23 and this bitch fight still dragging on. wtf guys? off topic much?
hope toyota realise ae86 fans do not care for a scion branded ft86. thats pretty clear from this thread

on behalf of everyone who was reading this thread, we loved all this arguing. pretty funny shit lol. kept me entertained for hours when there was nothing on tv :B


by the way, if its scion, can someone pleease explain the whole Pure Pricing thing to me.. i wont be able to lower the price? whats all this about?

Simple put the price on the sticker is they price you pay.. The dealership can not raise the price of it.... can it be lowered yes.. but then the dealership will lose money on the car...

That sucks it's gonna be a scion. The no haggle system sucks, I'll only pay $500 over invoice just like all my other cars. If scion don't want to haggle I bet Subaru will. And I bet the scion version won't have a turbo (knowing Toyota a turbo will be next to impossible to install and tune). If worse comes to worse I'll buy a Subaru and then buy the jdm front and rear Toyota bumpers: best of both worlds.

oohh ok. yeah i was worried about the idea of not being able to lower it. so pretty much, i can prob cut off a good 100-500 off the sticker, but its gonna take some seriious haggling right?

:word:

Moot point.

:word:

:word:

Perhaps used a rwd or awd car to begin with? :iono:

Rado's TC is stupid fast and well developed, granted. Know that full well. However, Put that much time, budget and work into a respectable rwd chassis and see if it doesn't turn out better.. without the park bench on the front. I like unconventional thinking, however what's the point in reinventing the wheel and making it octagon because round is too passe?

**edit**

wow. 24 pages in a day and a half? Must be some sort of record. lmao

I don't think the dealerships lose money on the car if they set the price tag. They can simply say.. this Scion cost 18k(base) + paper work and some of the accessories you want would total 21k, but in reality the car probably costs 14k to make + that other 4k for import tax and all the dilly dally.

Just because the "MSRP" says whatever on the website isn't necessarily true. :P Could be after all that paper work and a smaller margin of profit. If ya' catch my drift. :P

iirc '11 Geneva thread went lil over 30 pages in lil over week, so 24 pages in day & half is pretty fast. That tells you how many ppl are desperate for info in this car

Maybe he likes to do things people say can't be done. Like take a FWD car into the sub 1:00 times at a race track that otherwise only AWD and RWD cars get to. They are just a few seconds short of the overall track times, this is what sparked the development of their AWD tC. They are going after the overall times now.

They had front wings on race cars back in the 60's though, so it's nothing new.

AWD tC got the same sorta treatment in terms of downforce, but doesn't need as much as the FWD of course.

AWD + 1500hp

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...4001_large.jpg

Whatever floats his boat, but it doesn't really change the grit of the situation.

Yes, cars have had front wings a long time... rado's is ....... unconventional to say the least.

The awd tc reminds me very much of a pikes peak car. Pity one can't actually pick up an awd tC off the showroom floor (as cool a race car I actually opine that the awd tC is).

^^Yeah, definitely thought outside the box. Maybe not the grit to some, but the grip sure changed...:) But that thinking has gained him significant advantages. Now other FF guys are following suit, just not as drastic (Hasport for example).

Yeah Pikes peak is usually the first thoughts on the AWD tC.

I just had a curious thought. People have indicated they think having an Scion version of the FT would kill tC sales.

Wouldn't it sorta be equivalent to a Toyota Solara and a Toyota Camry. Solara is a two door Camry some could argue. But I don't think either hurts the others sales. I think there is a greater difference between a tC and an FT-86 then there is a Solara and a Camry.

The other thing I was thinking of, is that the FT should be above the price of the tC, with peoples opinion of the Scion brand (being for low budget college kids), how can the FT kill tC sales if low budget college kids can afford the FT? Seems a bit contradictory to think of the "image" as being a low budget persons car, but think a higher costing FT would steal sales. The college kids would be still in the tC and post grad young adults (30's and up) would be in the FT. Parents do buy their kids stuff they shouldn't have, but there aren't enough parents to buy their kids FT's to make any impact in tC sales or to make up a demographic % no more than there is a young kid with a 350z, STI etc...