The frs is basically a rwd itr. I love the people talking about understeer like they have any experience in one of these cars. My civic gets more tail happy than most rwd cars.

I just wrote the same reply I'd make to this in the other reply. The torque dip is KILLER on these cars. By feel I thought it would be as fast or faster until I ran both next to each other. The dip kills it and once the ITR is in the powerband it never drops back out. The weight makes a difference too.

Also, while the trans gearing itself is better in the BRZ, the final drive is taller. I'm too lazy to do the math, but I doubt the gearing is much, if any, better in the BRZ. Especially when you include the 1.2" larger diameter wheel and tire package.

I'm not slamming the BRZ or really defending the ITR, but since I own both and the guy wanted opinions from owners of both (past or present) these are my opinions. It in no way makes me regret purchasing my BRZ and I love the car. They are apples and oranges IMO. The BRZ is much more like a RWD GSR IMO than an RWD ITR.

I'm sorry, but there's no way on God's green earth, that a 195 hp, 2639 lb ITR with complete interior and 195/55/15 tires is touching anywhere near 13.9...even at E-Town. If that's the case, then a 180 hp, 2500 lb GTS with BETTER gearing should be 13.7 bone stock.

Come on man, you're a mod. You should know that not everything posted on a forum is absolute truth. Especially for honda boys.

And stock ITRs more often than not with full tanks are 25xx.. Mine which has AC and stereo equipment is less than the curb weight with a full tank...

Man memories of vtec singing to 8500.....(and lack of torque)

Someone say RWD Integra?!?!

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/19...onversion.html

Except that I know the guy who did it multiple times (Not on slicks, but sticky street tires (not stock tires)), not basing my information on forum reading. Hell if you knew me at all you'd know that I wouldn't actually click on a "Look what my (insert car here) did in the 1320!!!" thread.

14.1-3s are easy on a stock ITR for those few who care enough to drag race them. I don't even know what the BRZ does in the qtr, I couldn't really care less about it.

Honestly, believe whatever you want. I'm the one who has run them against each other. Go find a stock ITR owner willing to do the same with you and post your results. :thumbup:

The torque dip sucks no doubt, but the lowest part of the dip is essentially the highest part of the ITR. The difference is where the torque is made. More torque at higher RPM = more hp, seeing as HP is just a function of torque.

I wouldn't compare the BRZ to a GSR. The GSR is pretty slow for being 170hp and a bit more peaky than the ITR. My intent isn't to get into a pissing contest between the two, just bring down the inflated opinions about the ITR a bit. Reel in the kite a little so to speak.

I haven't owned both, but I've driven both (and more) quite extensively. The ITR reminds me of my GTS, so I'd compare the ITR more to the GTS than the BRZ to the GSR.

Yeah there's a mid engine ITR with a prelude engine in it as well.

There's also Blake's old ITR (no idea what happened to it) which he used for Pikes Peak and then drifting. IIRC B20VTEC with a CRV (or AWD Integra, forgot which but pretty sure CRV) trans, AWD Integra rear end.. was AWD for Pikes Peak and then modified for FR for drifting.

I can't reply to this without offending Celica GTS owners ;)

Mmm, AWD Integra. I wish they made it over here to the states. That'd be my winter DD! Aren't they quite rare, even in Japan?

Oh and I'll try to find a stock-ish ITR next week at Mid Ohio. If so I'll post datalogging info of my BRZ and the ITR. Not too many stock ITRs at ITR Expo though :(

Yeah.. powered by a D series IIRC. I haven't looked into them since Blake first mentioned the project probably 9 or 10 years ago.

Can't say anything that we probably haven't already heard. Biggest problem with the GTS is it actually needs someone who knows how to drive it. My average at the track in my stock GTS was 14.85, not the best out there, but whatever. I haven't taken the BRZ up. Probably won't either, there have been tales of dealerships checking the track for people who race. My friend has long since sold his ITR. He averaged 14.7 with 2.0 60's. He drove the BRZ and loved it. Said it was nice to not have to downshift to get up hills. LOL