Yeah tell that to AE86 drivers. Great cars, that the average unenlighted person think look like methed out piles of 80's sheet metal.

While I'm not comparing an 86 to a ff xb, I love my wifes xB. So ugly it's cute, zippy enough for freeway driving, handles well and has been sending 41mpg our way. Also it hauls everything.

Can we wait to test drive this car?? Fanboys are fanboys.

It was a struggle to switch from a Tacoma to a Frontier (How dare I leave Toyota after our long history together), but after I did I realized the Frontier was better in many ways. An Infiniti G is a JDM Skyline, A Lexus ES is a glorified Camry.
Come on people.

Drive the dang car first, then come to a conclusion. Saying, "I WILL NEVER DRIVE A SCION", just shows ignorance and likely a lack of vehicle experience.


A: "I hate sushi."
B: "Have you ever had sushi?
A: "No, but it's gross."
B: *walks away* *Enjoys sushi* :party0030:

Well said! :respekt:

Which details? The Subaru VIP program is no secret. On current models the discount is ~$1300-3300. That is no secret either. Just depends on the car model. No idea about the discount for the 216a but it will fall in there somewhere.

manufacturers paying shops lots of money to make a rwd version of an FF for drift competition is faking the funk. :iono:

Sorry, I don't buy that. Half Purity? Really?





I'll pass. I don't like Honda's for that reason (all high rev no torque). I'll take a bump down on the rev band in exchange for a larger bump in torque. But this isn't the engine thread and there is one for that, so I'll digress from the subject.



I only crack up laughing when people use two out of the 10 or so examples of Scion motorsports, to formulate their opinion. tC is an AWD chassis chief, thus legal for FD. That is a fact. People don't seem to like to many facts around here, rather just a collective pool of opinions that are largely unfounded.

with a quick look through Subaru's website, i didn't find anything about the details that you mentioned. specifically the automatic $1300 off msrp.

So what will the FT-86 provide in the Scion lineup that the tC doesn't already provide? tC starts off at like $19k (most expensive model), the 86 will start off at around $25k. The xD and xB start off at ~$16k (the three Scion models average out to $17k starting). So Scion is going to introduce a new car that will cost over 30% more than their next closest model? The new 86 (at $25k) will cost 50% more than the average cost of their other 3 models ($17k). Scion is suppose to be budget minded towards the 10-15 year olds? Right? $25k doesn't sound budget minded to me (in Scion's current pricing). You have a high school kid or someone straight out of college. Looking for a new car. Deciding between the tC and 86. Knows nothing about car handling or FR. You think they will spend $6k more for a 86?

Hell the tC is already a 2 door "sports" car for those budget minded. Just send this to Toyota already since they don't have anything in their lineup that the 86 would compete for sales with.

lol ok so faking the funk 2 out of 10 times is permissible?

A little bit of google goes a long way: click here



Edit: Looks like zigzag found a specific reference from one of the programs. So you should be good to go now.

http://www.lnt.org/programs/subaruVIP.php

Only if you are a Scion lover/owner. But the same standard isn't be used by him since Toyota is using a Subaru engine. :bonk::bonk::bonk::bonk::bonk::bonk:

That's just it though. The "budget minded college kids" are the lower % of their buyers. The average Scion owner is 30+ yrs old.




Are you saying the chassis is fake? Not getting where you are coming from. And we differ in that I don't formulate my opinion on something, based on the smallest portion of it, just so I can feel better about my opinion of it.

And yet a reason Scion has been doing so poorly is everyone has been running away from them to other manufacturers.




So with it being a Scion it is just a matter of time before we start getting riced out 86s huh? Seems like Honda and Scions tend to be more at risk for this unfortunate disaster of being "riced out" with crazy rear wings and front splitters.

Exhibit A:

http://image.superstreetonline.com/f...oving_shot.jpg

Exhibit B:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kD9ET_VjSZ...g-scion-tc.jpg


Just image what will happen to the 86. My heart cries inside thinking about it.

I'm going to put cherry blossoms on mine! LOL :happyanim:only at the rear. :>

From Scion's high of ~15-19k cars a month now down to barely 3,000 cars a month, you really think a FT-86 will get people to come back to Scion? I doubt the 86, no matter how great it will be, will turn Scion around. If I'm in my mid-30s to early 40s with 2 solid household incomes ($90-120k combined) I'm looking at a totally different car than a Scion/86. No offense.

NESW20, I believe this is what he is talking about:

http://www.lnt.org/programs/subaruVIP.php

"
Members of Leave No Trace are eligible for Subaru's VIP Partners Program. Save between $1,300–3,300 off the manufacturer's suggested retail price (depending on model and accessories) plus any applicable incentives on the purchase or lease of any new Subaru from participating dealers, without haggling. To take advantage of this benefit, Leave No Trace members must contact the Leave No Trace office before shopping for a Subaru. Our staff will arrange to have a letter of confirmation mailed to you as well as to your pre-selected local dealer. You must be a member of Leave No Trace for 6 months before you qualify for the VIP Partners Program. This offer is not applicable if you have already taken delivery of your new Subaru."

The top image is a Japanese style only found in Japan. So, you are insulting Japanese tuners there (whom were doing that type of thing LONG BEFORE Scion came along).



Wow, so the the time attack car that owns 10+ track record times across the country that was designed and consulted by an Aerodynamics Engineer is just a ricer?.....LOL. Obviously you don't appreciate function over form.

Your post carries no weight with me after that one.

It doesn't matter who did it or for what reason. A riced out car is a riced out car regardless of if you are in Japan, US, Europe, or South America. A riced out car is just that.



So a great track car needs to have a crazy front spoiler that is a reversed engineered rear spoiler on a scaffolding system? Ok I will make sure to send that note along to these guys.


http://car3bmw.co.cc/pictures/car/im...2-race-car.jpg



http://images.thecarconnection.com/m...00198507_m.jpg



http://www.flagworld.com/photos/d/34...he+911+GT3.jpg

We can't say anything on that one. Cuz they only shown drivetrain layout only and nothing else (price or when it's going to release).

You have me confused with someone else. I don't give a crap if it's a Toyota or a Scion. I only gripped about it not having a Toyota motor. I'm not the one crying. I made an observation that the people crying over being a Scion don't put the same effort into crying about not having a Toyota motor. If they were THAT pure then the forums would be filled with dislikes for the motor choice, but it's not. I don't consider you a purist if you aren't pissed about the motor. I'm not a purist. I buy cars based on the cars merits in and of itself. The value for it's features are reasonable, and it's known to be reliable, then I consider it.

I was considering buying a Gen Coupe which is made by a company with not so great reputation from the past. People overlooked the past though when the present produces a decent product.

In the same token you don't think the 86 will bring Scion around, I don't think the 86 will some how magically restore Toyota to a performance brand. One car in their lineup isn't enough to do that...imo. Like it or not, the tC is sporty and performs well, has a substantial aftermarket to create whatever you like out of it. All of Scions line has a substantial tuner market aside from the xD maybe.


Yeah they need to stop dragging it out. I'm getting tired of all of this.

The way you come of is that Scion is responsible for that trend. That's what I was conveying. There are Riced out 350z's dude. Ricers are in every brand. You think just because it's a Toyota that it will be immune to getting riced out? I say you should wake up bro.







Tisk Tisk, thanks for further proving to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. For starters, those cars have Rules and regulations for the sanctioning body they compete in. In Time Attack Unlimited class, that's just it...."It's Unlimited". They have 100s of hours in development in that car, and you think that your "Opinion" is greater than that? World Racing is about squeezing out every inch of time out of their car. They added the front wing to the car and ran 4sec faster than their previous track record. The car is FWD, when you are pushing 1200hp to the front wheels, you tell me what methods you would have utilized to put the power down to the ground? I'm waiting for your expertise on the subject matter. Please include your rich racing background as well as your advanced study credentials in Aerodynamics.

what part of "subaru's site" didn't you understand??? ;)

Dude are you 12 years old?

You put up Rado's TC and a Bosozoku bB??

Seriously?

I guess you don't know how to use google?

I believe it ran a 1:22 @ Willow, which might be the record lap time for a FF car. That's very quick given the record lap there was by Michael Andretti at 1:06 (Indy car) and the fastest motorcycle lap time was Vincent Haskovec at 1:21

Never heard of Bosozoku but googled it and found all of his designs to be disgusting! :thumbdown:

http://omgpancakes.wordpress.com/category/bosozoku/

It started with Motorcycle gangs in Japan. Might appeal to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C5%8Ds%C5%8Dzoku

Hayabusa?

Just ignore RRnold. He has absolutely no clue as to what he's talkin about.

I'm actually looking forward to a low MSRP and no haggle system. Lets just hope that we get the same car as the rest of the world, aside for badges.

That is what I'm looking forward to also ....

http://www.streetfire.net/video/rado...ing_733183.htm




It's ridiculously fast to say the least.

Forged Performances 600-700whp R35 GTR trying to follow him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsWtZ...layer_embedded


People can Call the wing whatever they want, it's a BEAST.

Toyota love to keep dragging it out... but Subaru usually show the concept car in auto show and within yr or so and they release it. Good example would be Impreza concept series. They have always shown the concept and next yr (or so) they released it.

Lol the budget that car has is also beastly... if the GTR could in fact keep up with it, there would be something seriously wrong with their racing development team. I mean, the GTR is a street car.

Does anyone know what it's gonna be called in europe ? I googled it but couldn't find a website with usable info .

The Forged Performance GTR is not a Street car. It's a Modified Class Redline Time Attack car. Means it's gutted, caged...etc. Sharif, the driver, has set lap records at Road Atlanta as well (the track they are on).

Aside from that, the Crawford Performance GTR has seen it's lap times eclipsed by the World Racing Scion tC, and Crawfords GTR makes 800-1000hp.



http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3...x/DSC_0521.jpg


800whp Race Viper and 700whp Vette....getting passed up. Not exactly street cars either.

Prob same name as Japan ver

Maybe American Chopper but definitely not Cafe and definitely not my cup of tea regardless of it originated from motorcycles! Show that to any Brit and they'll laugh! Cafe Racers cut or removed any uncessary parts to make it go faster hence the name (race around the coffee shop until the record stops playing).

Here is an example

'69 Triumph Bonneville
http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk...cafe_racer.jpg

'55 Norton Manx
http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk..._manx_1955.jpg

Bōsōzoku are known to modify their motorcycles in peculiar and often showy ways. A typical customized bosozoku bike usually consists of an average Japanese road bike that appears to combine elements of an American chopper style bike and a British café racer, for example: over-sized fairings like those found on café racers, raised handle bars like those on a chopper. Loud paint jobs on the fenders or the gas tanks with motifs such as flames or kamikaze style "rising sun" designs are also quite common. The bikes will often be adorned with stickers and/or flags depicting the gang's symbol or logo. There are also marked regional differences in motorcycle modifications. For example, Ibaraki bōsōzoku are known to modify their motorcycles in an extensively colorful, flashy way. They will often have three or four oversized fairings in a tower like way in a motorcycle painted in bright yellow or pink with Christmas light–like adornments. Their motorcycles were often cobbled together from stolen motorcycle parts and thus suffered from numerous break downs and maintenance problems.
Bosozoku also have a distinct style of car modification, eponymously called "bosozoku style".[4] These cars are often modified with large exhaust pipes, bright paint, and large aero kits, the latter modelled on Group 5 “Special Production Cars” of the 1970s.[5] Also popular are oil coolers or less commonly large turbo or supercharger intercoolers with highly polished tubing, usually mounted in a prominent position in the front bumper.[6]

I ain't gonna lie, you might think it's nostalgic but they are ugly! I know a good thing when I see it!

U-G-L-Y
http://i.pbase.com/g3/99/278099/2/57506380.DSCN0027.jpg

I hope the price will be 'affordable' . Euro versions tend to be very pricey compared to the jap/us versions .

Sure looks like a street car compared to the tC. And I can't really find any info on either GTR, so I cant comment.
What you consider ugly people in japan see as creative. Its like a fashion industry down there, but with cars. Its one thing to say its not your cup of tea, but calling them ricers is just stupid bro.

Can't say anything on that one, cuz I/we don't know how much it's actually gonna cost

Bro where did I ever say Scion was responsible for the trend. Read my post again. I said "Seems like Honda and Scions tend to be more at risk for this unfortunate disaster of being "riced out"..." I didn't say Scion was responsible. I just said that Honda and Scion cars are more at risk for being riced out. Also never said there aren't riced out 350z, Supras, Evos, STIs...etc. Never said that in my post. Just said Hondas and Scions are more at risk. That is based on my experience from local car meets and car shows. YMMV.


Tisk tisk tisk for not understanding the point of my post. My point was there are plenty of cars that are fast without a goofy spoiler on the hood of a car. That was my point. / of my point with that.

Naw dude are you 11 years old? Can we have a civil discussion without having to degrade someone else with useless comments?

Yes I put up the tC and the xB. What is your point. Both of them made the pointed I wanted to regarding riced out cars and the styling features that many use when they try to "pimp" their car into a riced fart can. Big wings, big graphics, "loud" paint, crazy ground effects...etc. You have somebody see a race car/show car with a spoiler and all of a sudden you have a bunch of teenagers thinking that if those cars have spoilers you might as well go with a large one since larger is always better. Right?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GmlJ2al7e_...ifications.jpg

Also in my opinion the Bosozoku is ugly and epitomizes my definition of a riced out car. You might like it. Great. I personally don't and think it is ugly. It actually looks better stock compared to what they did with it. After all that is my opinion. YMMV.

That is fast and an excellent lap time! Shit, he holds the record!! Haskovec's 1:21 lap time was during the Toyota 200 which used to bring out the AMA guys b/c of the purse! Last time I was at Willow on my R6, I was running 1:29-1:31's during a track day and not a race weekend. Race weekend, guys are running 1:24's.

WTF?! Who called them ricers? Did I strike a nerve with you for you to get all tender inside "BRO"! :bellyroll: Japan is more than capable of being creative, its just not in this department! :clap: