i say it makes sense to get the subaru version...

since the engine is a boxer after all...

and the name of the car has no "86" in it. :)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Sucks to be all of you since so many hate scion :p
My condolences
I wi get the Toyota :)

i will get the scion, but still love your comment!:bellyroll:


ohh, and its just a badge! we will have the same car.:happy0180:

yea feels good dosn't it, even though its the same car people in australia won't see it as a rebaged scion because we have no scion

pissed toyota did this in the US though,

i just hope that with it being the same car that Toyota dosn't now take a different direction with engineering it because its a scion in the US and that means that they have to dumb it down for the "younger" consumers, remember the D4-S, the heads redesigned by yamaha?? is this all still going to happen if its a scion?

because if it dosnt whats the point of getting the toyota version, might aswell get the subie coz if toyota does nothing but the exterior different, to me it'll be a subaru in drag

That's a good point...if they do for some reason do more than just change the badge people will be pissed. In this day and age kids will go on the net and find out about that lol.

I hope toyota still throws in the 86 somewhere...i mean this car has great potential to be a flagship-esque car for the Scion brand.

In terms of business...you could look at it that Scion is for the more younger/tuner crowd, Toyota is for the daily commuter people that just want a car, and Lexus is for luxury for both performance and daily commuter. So considering this is now a Scion...i may just wait and see what they do to the IS next year since it's redesign is next, and yes i know that not everyone here could afford an IS 350 necessarily (hell im being optimistic for myself) but it's just a thought. This is coming out in 2012, new IS is coming out later next year too (like the GS is going to this year) so for those interested might be fruitful to wait a few months.

well im ok with it being a Scion because im thinking its gona have the same engine as the toyota or subaru versions! but if not then....
IM FUCKED!!! :cry:

I bet Subaru is thrilled about this! Look at how many people are probably going to jump ship and buy the Subaru now. This thread is filled with 17 pages of dissapointment.

I think this basically sums it all up.

:bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll:

For those attending the NY Autoshow, you guys should tell the Scion people on the show floor what you really think of the car/brand. Maybe that will send a message to Toyota.

I can just imagine myself going to the dealership when it's released...
dealer: "So what do you think of the car?"
me: "Do you have a Toyota-only option?"

Seriously, I totally forgot about the IS. It will get coupe version for next design. I think I'ma go with either Subaru or IS.

So, for those indicating jumping over to Subaru, you think it's going to be the same price as a Toyota/Scion version? Yeah I'm going to say it will significantly cost more for the Subaru version so it's not directly competing with the Toyota/Scion equivalent.

scion = neutered...i guess i'm buying something else...thanks for nothing Toyota...

Derp...is that a negatitive comment?

I don't care about the Scion badge but I really don't like the no haggle price policy they have. That alone will probably force me into the Subie version.

I'm come to realize that with the FT-86 being a low volume car, that most dealers won't see a whole lot of them at any given point...meaning a waiting list....meaning dealer markup because other turds will pay the premium to have it first.

Scion can't do that.

When I worked at a yota dealership there was a waiting list for the tC of buyers who were set on buying the car. Everyone paid the same price though.

Yeah this is a little late and OT, but you are just plain wrong. The US MKIV Supra was offered with vvti. How do I know? I owned one, and it was not a jdm swap. It was stock off the lot

^ :thanks:



Macavely, when Honda introduced Acura, they did it with a performance aspect in mind, the NSX! How did Toyota introduce Scion... on a website aimed at 8-15 yrs and to new buyers who are not familar with Toyota.

There is nothing that screams performance when it comes to Scion b/c that wasn't their original intention. Now they are trying to introduce "performance" now... It's a little too late for that, the stigma is already set!

And about me not being a car person!?! I've been into cars way before you were a spec on your moma's chin homie! :slap: :bellyroll:

Then you owned the very rare '98 model that was sold for only half a year. That's the only MY that came to U.S. with the updated trim and options. Was unaware it came with the VVT-i 2JZ though. Pretty sure the GTE didn't have it though.

People don't understand that the no haggle is there to help them.


Something I just thought about. Why the Toyota Purist say nothing about the engine. It's not powered by a Toyota engine, yet no one is upset about that. LOL...some might even go as far to say it's not even a Toyota since it has a less than reliable (compared to Toyota motors) Subaru powerplant in it.

Your ready to shoot over a badge and claim dilution of branding, but the engine isn't even a Toyota engine, but that's ok. I would much rather have a Toyota powerplant.

I see your point. I just think that as long as you don't have to be an early adopter and can wait 6 months to a year then you'll be able to negotiate a Subie version cheaper.

Especially since the current crop of Subaru designers are hot garbage and the Subie will probably be ugly as sin. ;)

actually quite a few were upset about that, for proof you can go to the club4ag forums or the engine and drivetrain section of this forum.

regardless, this is irrelevant, because subaru flat-fours have inherent engineering advantages to them. the scion badge does not.

hopefully Toyota (and Yamaha) had a hand in designing the engine for the FT. or at least the heads. give it 11.5:1CR, D4S, solid reliability, and i'll be happy.

I for one am one of those people, but I was more focusing on this forum/thread here of all the "It's about Toyota Heritage" people. I don't see them creating a petition for replacing the engine. It's a petition for replacing a badge...lol. So, as much as they would like to pass this off as "it's about the Toyota purity and getting to it's roots", it's really a displeasure for the cars "image". Has nothing to do with history. If those people were that pure, they would be putting in more energy into getting a Toyota powerplant. Not pissed about a completely different companies heart beat, but you are pissed about being branded as a sibling to Toyota. The sibling is Toyota. I get it now...lol



I would prefer not to be to high on the compression. As long as it holds the boost and has that Toyota reliability, I'm good...:). Guess we shall see.

Haha yea this is starting to sound like when the Eagle Talons came out back in the day from 1995-1999 they had two choices the 4g63T 2.0L that was made by mitsubishi and the 2.0L 420a motor that was made by Chrysler/Dodge, so basically in a Mitsubishi eclipse you had an option of a 4g63T or a 420a chrysler motor which was stupid in my opinion : D

of course, you ignored the perfectly good point i made that the subaru engine has inherent engineering advantages. branding it a scion doesn't. yes, i am displeased at the brand's image. that's what everyone's been saying all along. so what is so wrong about that?

Yup 98 auto N/A nice car, but the insurance payments, killed me, and the police flashed me everywhere I drove.

Did you see I mentioned it doesn't have the "reliability" stigma associated with it compared to a Toyota? Sorry, I'll take a Toyota reliable motor over some dudes opinion on the badge on the front of the car. You are saying you would rather have a less reliable motor just so you don't have to see the branding of Scion. Can't agree with that myself. Much rather have a reliable Toyota plant in it.

I think you overlooked what I was saying because I didn't say you were wrong for not liking the image. I was conveying that imo...the "purist" are not about "being purist". They are pretending that, that's what it's about, when it's about the image. Just saying, keep it real...If it's about the image, then be about that. But don't come back with it being about Toyota history, cause it's not even running a Toyota motor.

i realize that it might not like as much boost if it has that high of a CR, but i really don't want to modify my engine, and i know you do (or at least turbo it, which is more work than i want to do to begin with, haha). :) soooo, would it be fair for me to ask for 11.5:1 if there's a readily available solution for lower CR for people who want boost?

could always get out the angle grinder and make your own low-CR pistons?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...82/Piston4.jpg
:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:

:bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll::bellyroll: Please keep that dude away from any of my tools and engines. Wow, that was a first for me. I would have NEVER thought someone would think that was a good idea.

yeah i ignored that because in japan subaru is more known for quality build than toyota is. regardless that's not even a good point because even though there are disadvantages, there are still some serious advantages to the boxer that make even some toyota guys willing to overlook the subaru badge. what are the engineering advantages to having to be a scion?


scion has an image of not keeping it real. and purists hate that. why is that so hard to understand?

Are you saying Toyota forgot how to make a great engine? Subaru makes better engines than Toyota? Yea sorry man, have to agree to disagree there. I don't live in Japan, so can't comment on that. I live in the states.

I can think of quite a few, but those would be my opinions and I'm sure you would differ and we would just go back and forth stating our opinions and neither would be wrong or right...in our own eyes.


Everyone has an opinion, that's not hard to understand.

I for one am pleased. I have owned both subarus and countless toyotas over the years. I love the boxer motor / the ej series I ran and they were every bit as reliable as the toyotas I have owned. And I also have purchased 2 scions new / still own one. You guys literally have zero clue as to what pure price is and how it works when purchasing a car. If this thing came out a toyota, you would be paying $5K+ premiums for the first 2 years or the dealer would not even bother with you. That and all the dealer BS about hooking you up below invoice after prices drop makes me laugh my ass off lol dealers can hose you 40 ways from Sunday and 99% of you think you still got a deal of a lifetime. I would actually never buy a new car again from any dealer unless it was pure price after the last 2 purchases.

And seriously? You guys thought this would come out as a Toyota? Did most of you read about the vision of this car? It was practically written on the wall that it would be a scion in the us as toyota itself is no longer an enthusiast company and scion, whether you like it or not has drawn a massive amount of enthusiasts from all walks, many of which are why you stereotype scion. That and the tC2 is pretty much a hideous flop and the iQ just does not make sense to most of us, so either they put a kick ass ride up for sale to re-gain some ground or scion ends up folding. Do any of you know what the name scion actually means? "descendant of" and when a car is set to be the so called re-incarnation of an ae86... well sort of fit to brand it as such. Also, during the unveiling of the xB2 and xD in Miami where scion flew 300 of us owners out to party for a few days / had that rapper guy ludicrous or whatever his name is play a private gig for us, the engineers on site were already hinting about a RWD scion to be one of the next cars they were planning to have in the scion lineup, well that was the direction they wanted to go. So when many of us in the scion community first came across the new RWD / subaru powered project... We pretty much all knew they would never brand it as a toyota.

Anyways, get over the name and enjoy the ride! Cannot wait myself

Mute point here. Just sign up for one of the SOA VIP Partners. Wait 6 months. Then get your Subaru 216a for ~$1300-3300 off MSRP with no haggling and no waiting. You walk in with your piece of paper and they sell you what is on the lot or will order exactly what you want. No haggling. No waiting in line. Nada. PLUS you get any SOA cash back or incentives on top of that. Can't beat that. Just sign up with one of the partners. Have 6 months of being a member, you are eligible. Depending on the partner you sign up for I think annual cost could be as low as $50. Leave No Trace is a great program. Donate $50 and save upwords of $3000 in the process.

http://www.subaru.com/company/partnerships/index.html

I can almost bet that the added options on the Subaru (and added price) will be offset by this VIP deal almost to the level of the Scion fixed price. Screw Scion and go Subaru all the way! Subaru power! :burnrubber:

i really don't see how you can draw that conclusion from my posts.

just because i think subaru makes good engines doesn't mean i think that toyota can't. look at the 1LR-GUE, possibly the best production N/A engine ever.

i am also a toyota guy and like toyota engines, but i'm not enough of a brand whore to not be able to recognize the upsides of a subaru boxer. i think the motor has potential to be really good but we won't know until the car comes out.

^^LOL...Time for a Rodney King video.

can you show me where you found out those details??? (directed at tranzformer)

You didn't see the message in my original post. It was about the "purist" claims more than anything else. Just saying, don't fake the funk. It's about the image, not about the Purity of being a Toyota.

This makes no sense at all. The new FT-86 is suppose to be the new Hachi-Roku. The new incarnation if you so will for the 21st century. If you wanted Toyota purity in the equipment sense you would expect a car based on 80s technology, same as the original. This new incarnation is still true to the Toyota purity. That purity is not in the physical sense per-say. But in the thought process behind the design and creation of the car. Toyota is building this car to be reasonable priced, nimble, well handling, balanced, fun to drive...etc. However they are not putting themselves in a box inregards to how they can or can not accomplish that. Luckily Toyota saw that FHI had something that could very well make the new FT-86 that much better. I'm not sure why you write off the boxer engine. It has many benefits over any of the 4 cylinder engines Toyota would have put in themselves. The combination of Toyota, FHI and Yamaha is a great combination of great minds combining their strengths to create something different.

Toyota's purity is in the design and thought process behind the car. Not what engine it came with. Luckily they are willing to think outside the box to create something great.



If it is NA (as it probably will be) I want it to be high compression. Give me that 14:1 please.