This thread is full of win : )

I gave up on the 4ag, even with big bucks I estimated my streetable 4ag put out 150 net HP. I put in a 3tg with a W50 trans punched to 2.0 and I was just shy of 190 net HP. I'm sure there has been lots of 4ag stuff out since I got rid of mine in the late 80s but the 3tg was so much better with much more torque and the W50 was a far far far stronger trans vs the T50. The 10 bolt was OK as long as you did not banzai the 3tg too much many people put in a GM 10 bolt with the 7 and 3/8 ring and that was a light efficient and indestructible rear and the 99 version even came stock with a torsen, of course I was long out of Toy racing by then. So take it all with a grain of salt, but my 4ag with $$$ into it was easily stomped by a near stock 3tg, and completely blown away by the far cheaper to build 1.8 to 2.0 3tg Got all my stuff from Japan like TRD and HKS and from the Toy Store in Las Vegas, these were old guys back in the day, don't think they are around anymore. My wife has a nice home and farm in Japan, so I got all the cool stuff like Pioneer supertuner component systems when every one else in 1976 had just the FM supertuner... hah! of course the readout was all in Japanese..

cool link and pics. I own a 1998 ITR now, I've owned another 1997 ITR in the US (got stolen) and one in Japan (1996). The 2639 curb is for the 2000 USDM ITR with side impact beams, rear lower floor brace, A/C and rear wiper. The 1997 base was about 2550 lbs curb. The JDM with far less stuff like no clock, radio, ABS, P/S, crush beams fore / aft and center was more like 2480 curb and 2430 shipping weight. When you are talking light weight cars 100 to 200 lbs makes a big difference. The 1998 JDM ITR put out a real 203 HP net, about 205 din with a good bit of torque boost due to the 4 to 1 header. Yes I know it was rated at 200 DIN same as the 1996. I have both exhaust systems and the header does offer more HP and a good bit of usable torque.

I can't drive both my BRZ and my ITR at the same time, but gut feeling as I learn the streetable limits of the BRZ it is a little slower 0-60 and in the 1/4 and it takes a whole lot more car / mind oneness when pushed near the limits down the back roads and I live in the boonies so I got a lot of these. In a year when my BRZ is fully broken in, and I know it limits maybe they will be dead even. I'm comparing this to a decade of stock ITR driving, my ITR now has a few common exhaust mods and a set of Stage 1 cams and tune say about +15 HP and -50 lbs of "stuff". I luv the ITR but the BRZ is the future and IMO,given 10 years of evolution, simple bolt ons will put the BRZ far ahead of the ITR. As an example the ITR must have a 100 good headers and IMO the skunk2 alpa which is about 6 months old on the market is the best one for my setup. One can only think what 15 years worth of header, head port, cam and tune is going to do to the BRZ. Bummer that the BRZ is going to be pain to change cams. My older bro has a BRZ and wants to do cams and maybe a stroker! He is retired now so time and bucks no object. I know at some point you might as well go FI, but what fun is that? As it is too "easy" LOL.

There is a lot of miss info here a base Japan ITR either 1996 or 1998 with fumes in the gas tank, 110 lbs driver if that and using drag strip roll outs with a engine that puts out about 10 more real HP vs USDM, can do a 14.2. 100% showroom stock.

The best USDM road test was like a 14.8 at 95 MPH and this was the heaviest version with A/C. The best I ever heard of was a 14.6 for a 1997 ITR bone stock no A/C. So say that or even a 14.4 @96 MPH under optimal conditions lightest version VHT prep track with a good tail wind and 20 degrees out. Not slow by any means but it ain't a 13.9. My own ITR with GTech does high 14s at 94 MPH when stock, with cams, exahust and tune, -50 lbs of stuff I've gone 14.2 at 97 or 98 MPH (slightly longer et).... I'm not the best driver but I do have hundreds if not over a thousand thru the gear blast on ITRs.... I just have not sent the rod thru the block on the current ITR... with 120,000 on the clock...but soon I try hard every day.... So my car in the US puts out say 5 to 10 HP more than the JDM ITR and weights with a fuller tank of gas a 60 lbs heavier driver and 100+ lbs heavier car does about the same ET.... sounds about right. 14.4 or even a 14.2 is NOT a 13.9... for that IMO would need DRs and a banzai launch and at the very least changing the 45mm USDM cat out for a 57 mm JDM version ...

I expect the twins will be in the mid 14s with breakin and some mild blot ons.. But neither the ITR or the twins were build for stop light kungfu or the 1/4 mile.

Just go find activeaeros old posts. I don't recall which tires (drag radials at the most though). He did many 13.9s on a stock ITR. I've seen it happen.

The BRZ at a roll is slower than my gsr which means its even slower than my ITR.

You can't change just the cat, but I'm sure you knew that :thumbup:

You ever go to one of the ITR expos?

I dont own an ITR but currently a jdm CTR which is lighter than an ITR. :)
regarding the 1/4 time of the ITR, back in the days when i was still living in California. We used to go to Pomona raceway evry few months when they open it for the public. I had a 1999 civic Si back then. Also was a member of Team ViSion. mostly civic Si owners, but also had type R members too. The fastest ITR i saw stock did a 14.3. Theres just NO way it can do a 13.9. Whats the elevation of the track youre on?

It would take me like 5 seconds to inspect a "stock" ITR and show you where the HP was being made, the first crazy bottle neck is that ALL Integras run the same super small CAT 45mm, the JDM ITR has a 57 MM cat with a "2.5" inch external donut. The Cat and downpipe mods are worth 7 to 10 HP right there. Toss out 50 lbs of weight... still stock, you get the drift. The 1998 up safety cross beam under the seat with ties to the B pillars plus bolts is about 20 pounds... still stock, just don't get T-Boned in an accident.

I could put my car back into 100% stock condition and it would still put out about 215 to 220 HP, things like removal of the internal twin wall of the down pipe and a stock Prelude size Cat s are almost impossible to see "stock" the .5 CR increase skunk2 valves, or the .3 CR single shim head gasket is worth 5 HP, cam gears, Toda B cams, chip tune all look 100% stock.

The basic truth of the matter is the fastest stock cars ain't stock.

I want to go, but these are old cars and the 3500 mile round trip plus racing means a good chance I'm tow / dolly my car back home.... I'm so much more into the twins... it is the future.

RWD might be superior, but you've obviously never driven an ITR.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/5...1101145126.jpg



my old car, proper JDM 98 spec too :(

i shall compare when i get my 86 :D

Had the CTR ever come here I would have taken it over the BRZ. I'm a Honda fan at heart (grew up watching Senna) but they just haven't impressed me since the 99 si and the ITR died. I've owned every Si that Honda has built (from the 3rd gen CRX Si to the FA5 but I skipped the latest version because it was just more of the downhill slide. When they gave us the EP3 in Si trim I knew it was going to be over soon.

I had plans to turn my FA into a CTR but the cost involved was just too much and it wouldn't ever be the same. I've driven the EK and EP CTR's and the ITR as well and have to admit they are -damn- great cars that punch -far- above their weight.

Having driven the ITR on track, and having driven a BRZ I really think that the driver would be the difference (assuming that the ITR was fresh).

Bah I drive mine every year.. well not anymore, I drive the BRZ now, but I have no fear that my 97 would make it. They are Honda's after all.

Oh and Toda Spec B's undetectable? You have heard them idle right? I've been around these cars for.. well 15 years now.. I know them fairly well. JDM length cat is shorter (and bpipe is longer), so it would be obvious if you looked under the car, it would need either a JDM exhaust or a cut exhaust, both are obvious to anyone who knows what they are looking at.

What are the mods on this one? Ignore the banter, we were probably drunk and it was the first time the car was running again so we were waiting for it to drink coolant/etc (the last 2 times craig didn't tighten the belt...)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsK0N0hDaFA"]Craigs POS running again - YouTube[/ame]

Just read this thread and the FR-S looks like a good DD to get to supplement my ITR :).

How much you selling your ITR for Dave? My friend actually picked up the Edmunds ITR from Socal a while back!

No idea. Depends on what's on the car, spares, how much of the minor paint issues I fix, etc.

That old Honda school car was sweet. Gary's (the Honda employee who your friend bought it from) a great guy too. :thumbup: That's one nice ITR, does he use it or just collecting?

.... lets see ALMOST a year from the dead. looking into getting an FR-S 2014 Manual. i wouyld be selling my only car, a 2000 GS-R with a B20VTEC. Pretty reliable and quick enough. 172 whp/140 tq. Finding it hard to justify purchase but haven't had a RWD since my 3rd gen camaros(stock 92 v6 and worked 89 v8 350). I figure my b20vtec has similar power to type r, along with similar handling due to suspension upgrades.

I think the Integra typeR is the DOPEST car of it's era. Why? based on pure subjective biased reasoning. Also, more people would agree than disagree with my subjective opinion :D

Dc2 type r is a great car. I drove my cousin's itr lots and enjoyed it quite a bit. But the frs is on another level. Go test one for yourself. You'll see what I mean.

Power wise, the frs feels more along the lines of an H22a type, imo. Not quite super winding out like a b-series vtec.

i drove a manual around the block never hitting over 40. i ragged a bit on an auto. hard to compared after just a quick drive. seems like they will be about similar on the road only diffrence being reliability(frs warranty) and price $0 to keep gs-r vs 25k+ for frs

Eh, chassis will never be a stiff. Having owned an ITR and modified GS-R at the same time the experience was quite a bit different in the ITR.

It depends on what you want and what the car is used for. My GS-R replaced my BRZ for track use and my M3 replaced the BRZ for DD usage.. now I need to figure out what I can use the BRZ for...

Hmmmm just came back from dealer and even with 10k down I am looking at a monthly payment of $438 plus obvious insurance increase since currently I just have comprehensive. Makes me tempted to just keep GS-R...

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I would keep the GS-R vs paying that much with a big down payment.

Yeah I decided to just keep the teg until today. Two dealers are offering me 2014 base manual for 25k. 12k down, 6.6%apr(first time buyer), 5 year loan with payments of just under $300 monthly.

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6.6%. !?!??!!?!!?!

That's crazy. I was also a first time buyer but got the regular 2.99% Apr over 60 months. I got excellent credit though...

Yeah. I have a score of 690 but only have two lines of credit totaling 3k with history of less than two years on both.

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After making payments for a year try to refinance at a lower rate. I just dropped my rate from 5.3% to 3.09%

Got 4.5 from dealer. Who wants to buy my GS-R?

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Found this old thread, worth adding this info here.

‘12 to ‘16 BRZ vs DC2 Integra Type R —> https://zeperfs.com/en/duel4320-176.htm

‘17+ BRZ vs DC2 Integra Type R —> https://zeperfs.com/en/duel6893-176.htm