Its funny how you called Nissan a sissy carmaker and then you turn around and say you would consider a TSX when nissan clearly has the better vehicle in that segment, the G37s. Oh and just because Nissan have the fastest production car in Japan that only have a DCT they are considered sissys? That means Ferrari is sissys too? I give credit to automakers moving forward in performance and Honda is not one of them. Honda is mostly made up of FWD,torqueless,econoboxes posing as sports cars. rant/

G37S trunk is way too small to hold my hockey bag so it's pretty worthless as a DD to me. I wasn't a fan of the G35 but I haven't driven the 37S because of the trunk. Otherwise I might agree with you. And I would never consider owning a new gtr because of the trans. Same with new ferraris (not that I'd ever spend that kind of money on a car anyways) but I respect porsche, Aston Martin, etc for still offering real transmissions :)

You know why Lexus LFA uses the best single clutch transmission? Feel brother. feel.

Umm, I would disagree with you there.

1) Pretty much only rich older guys and Paris Hilton suitors would be able to buy one, and they don't like to shift themselves.

2) Wanrranty claims/repairs will be much less as people can't jack the tranny as easily

3) Given the low production quantity, it would be cost-prohibitive to build 2 transmissions, and the flappy-paddles is the natural choice (see #1)

4) it gives more consistent and slightly better magazine times, which is the most important factor for these ego-stroking owners who will never use 4/10ths of the car

5) The engine revs so quickly, you would be shifting A LOT, and it might get tiring and difficult to keep up. This also allows them to use tighter gear ratios (see #4 above)

I can't see anyone who has driven a flappy-paddle gearbox say it is anywhere near as involving of a driving experience. Nothing can take the place of the feeling of a perfectly executed rev-matched down shift as you dive into a corner. Nothing.

I don't see the point is. I replied SUB-FT86 that DCT is not the best feeling tranny. It's more like computer control tranny. Supercar like LFA uses single clutch transmission because Lexus want to add more feel to it(supercar). I never say manual transmission is bad or not as good as transmission in LFA. Never.
p.s. I have always loved manual transmission.

I love how everybody talks about the involvement of manual tranny cars yet when I drive a manual I never get a much different feeling from driving it versus a manual shiftable auto done right. The only thing I feel that's missing is the annoying clutch(depending on which car I drive). I honestly believe it is a mental thing with you guys or it could be we're all different like that.

I'm praying to the Toyobaru gods that the Scion version starts out around $21k-$23.5k :(

Why? I want this as my graduation present! (in 1-2 years, ofcourse, hopefully sooner if i can get my dad to get the FR-S-anticipation bug :thumbsup:

I hope you're buying it for youself because if you're parents are going to buy you this is a graduation present, I'm going to vomit.

i believe it is a lack of good paddle shift trannies in the lower end of the pricing spectrum that is causing all the "hate". people need to drive a good auto-manual and experience firsthand how fun they can be. as fun as a manual? no of course not. but given the right car, like a ferrari, im sure 99% of people wont miss the manual because everything else is so involving. and that, imo, is the highest praise you can give an auto-manual. not that it's better than a manual, but that it doesnt take away from the driving experience.

:word:

And if you look at Motortrend best drivers car they awarded the 458 Italia the best drivers car regardless of it being offered with a manual. And Randy Pobst is a professional race car driver who even said he preferred the tranny in the 458 over the manual in the other cars that they tested which included Porsche's(and he loves Porsche's). My point? Not everybody is as close minded as the manual only guys.

:laughabove:

The dsg in the golf r shits all over the manual car...

When in sports mode of the dsg r, it is just as engaging as a manual!
And it is shitloads faster then the manual only complaint is the inistall take off lag where the box needs to go feom park to select the gear, this just takes practise to work out.
(if you have a spare 2-3k can be tuned out)


But for a rwd sports car I want a manual.

another perspective:

by definition, an auto-manual can't give you the same feel, the same involvement because you are only flipping paddles and/or moving the console shifter back and forth. BUT my question is, if you NEED the feel of shifting to "satisfy" you, then what does that say about the car you're driving? again with the ferrari example. i've never heard any review say this car lacks in any way because of the gearbox. why? because it doesnt NEED the "feel" you get from shifting to offer a satisfying driving experience.

your mom's civic? yes. a manual makes the car more fun. makes it feel faster cuz your mind is occupied with shifting. but in reality you're still slow as fuck. the 458? who needs the feel you get from shifting when you're in that car?

:clap: Summed it up pretty well there, completely agree. But then it leaves the question: where would most people feel the need to draw the line between manual or automatic; in terms of the performance of the car?

I never understood graduation presents, especially for something silly like high school. The only thing I got after graduating high school was a hangover.

:respekt:

Well fucking said!!!!

Hmm valid point madfast.

Out of curiosity, the article says: "A big 'start' button on the console lights the engine," does that mean keyless ignition? Is the Nuringburg racing prototype older than the one C&D messed with?

And I still balk at the idea of it being 28k.

Excellent point. My retort is 1) The FR-S wi also be slow as fuck stock and 2) it is not just the car, but, more importantly, the type of driving that matters. Street driving should NEVER be hard enough where you are focusing that much on finding the limit of the vehicle. And, after all, that is the type of driving 98% of us will be doing.

I contend that even driving a 458 on the street, it would still be more fun with a manual. Well, at least for me anyway.

"Affordable" as in cheaper than the GTR's ungodly price tag. $50-60 would be nice with Z06 performance. :)

Mazda dropped the ball there, the torque converter in the RX8 transmission couldn't withstand the high rev's of the Renesis engine. They had to drop the redline and readjust the entire powerband to get the performance closer to the MT. Totally failed IMO. Not the transmissions fault, Mazda chose the wrong type.

Sure Evo, STi, MS3? and several other entry-mid ranged performance cars are MT only. This comes back to a point I was making a few months back. To make a quality auto box the cost would be too great and people wouldn't pay the $3-5K premium for it...so they don't make it. Look at the high-end/exotics. They almost all have an auto option that either matches or beats the MT counterpart.

When they [high performance autos] become more cost effective, we will see more of them in the entry level performance market. Just like it took a few years for us common folk to get flat panel televisions. The rich folk who purchased $10,000 tv sets financed the R&D it required to make them mainstream. Once that happened every one and their mother has a flat panel. Just takes times.

Maybe so. Finishing ahead of you (whoever) in a race would certainly take the cake for me though. I guess I'm different. I've been driving high performance cars with manuals for the last decade and I guess I'm over clutches. The ability to apply pressure to a pedal while also sliding a knock around doesn't take all that much skill. If I can get the same performance from an paddle as I can with a knob, I'm all for it. Technology wins out every time.

Yeah, that's crazy. I don't know when graduating high school became a big deal. If all I ever did with my life was graduate high school, I would give my life a D-. It's passable, but nothing special. :iono: Silly rich people.

I bet your parents didn't get you a graduation present when they found out you were using the incorrect forms of your/you're.

Who gives a shit what someone else's parents buy them? Personally if I had 20 grand it'd go into my son's college fund instead of a new car, but some people just have a ton of money and don't know what to do with it.

P.S. - If anyone reading this is one of those who have tons of money and don't know what to do with it, I'm accepting donations. :bellyroll:

Ok, here's the deal about manual and automatic transmissions. Manual transmissions make the drive be involved in the forward, and backward, motion of the vehicle. This makes the person engaged in driving the vehicle, instead of just mashing the accelerator pedal and brake pedal.

For people that say having a manual in traffic is too much, they are sadly mistaken. I have driven my manual cars into and out of NYC, 3-6 times a week, for over a year, and not once did I wish I had an automatic car. Sure, if you need something to just go back and forth to your job everyday, I can agree that an auto will be more practical, but not so practical to say that the auto is worth having.

That said, if it is more than 23k, if it weighs more than 2700 pounds, if it looks horrible, then I will be forced to look elsewhere.

To play devil's advocate...

I'll take paddle shifters. While you're busy using that 2% of your brain pressing down on the clutch pedal, I'll invest that 2% of my brain in making sure I hit that apex at just the right spot. We're both 100% engaged in our race, only difference is you're tossing some of your concentration out the window where I'm optimizing my driving. In the end we're both satisfied. I'm satisfied that I did everything I could to improve my lap time, you're satisfied that you did more physical work to achieve a lesser goal.

:happy0180:

Driving a MT in traffic isn't "too much," it's more work than it needs to be. I'm not trying to impress girls in school by driving around in super cool MT car, I'm just trying to get to the store to pick up some milk. I don't need any added "feel" for my mindless drive to the store to get my milk. That's why I'm open to the idea of a high performance AT. It's fun when I want it to be, mindless when I don't.

:burnrubber:

To play devil's advocate...

I'll take paddle shifters. While you're busy using that 2% of your brain pressing down on the clutch pedal, I'll invest that 2% of my brain in making sure I hit that apex at just the right spot. We're both 100% engaged in our race, only difference is you're tossing some of your concentration out the window where I'm optimizing my driving. In the end we're both satisfied. I'm satisfied that I did everything I could to improve my lap time, you're satisfied that you did more physical work to achieve a lesser goal.
:happy0180:

Driving a MT in traffic isn't "too much," it's more work than it needs to be. I'm not trying to impress girls in school by driving around in super cool MT car, I'm just trying to get to the store to pick up some milk. I don't need any added "feel" for my mindless drive to the store to get my milk. That's why I'm open to the idea of a high performance AT. It's fun when I want it to be, mindless when I don't.
:burnrubber:

I wish some people would get this concept. I couldn't have said it better. Some days I'm in the mood and other days I'm not but at least I have the option of doing so. In my car I love to use the manual part of the tranny whether upshifting or downshifting to get more power then all of a sudden I run into some bullshit ass traffic so I become bored with shifting and just put the damn car in auto until I find a clear path.....

:burnrubber:

http://www.youjustmademylist.com/wp-...3/cry_baby.jpg
"My butt hurts cause people are making fun of people that want automatics and I want an automatic! I have to defend my pride against people I will never meet in real life!"

I'm not sure about this, totally guessing, don't hold it agaisnt me, but I THINK the FT-86 is more on the civic end of the spectrum than the ferarri side. Again, just a hunch.

We already know how some of you feel from this thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...?t=1717&page=6

But to once again quote the chief engineer Mr.Tada:
You guys are getting mad because people want to enjoy the car the way it was created and intended to be.

If we were to compare driving a car to making love.

Automatics are for the people that want to just lay on their back and let the women do the work. You guys don't really love them, you just like the social status and attention of having a pretty lady on your arm.

DSG is for people are for those who lay on their back, but like to honk the horns. They say they are skilled at making love like they say they're skilled at driving, but we know they are lying, maybe they used to be, but they forgot.

People who drive manual put in the effort because they love their car like they love women, sometimes moreso for some. They love the experience and feeling of driving.

MAN UP!

@82mm, maybe you should just carpool so that you waste less time concentrating on driving :iono:

Iv been driving a manual for 6.5 years now (since I got my licence) and I have been driving a manual since day one. I never, EVER, had any issues with driving in gridlock, nor do I think about the clutch at all (brain is in auto pilot when I change gears, and after a few months since I got it I never thought about it, practice makes perfect) and I never had issues hitting the apex, because in reality you shouldnt be shifting at the apex :)
Perhaps you need more practice driving ;)
And don't compare to F1 cars or any other formulas mate, the cockpits are too small to have a stick ;)

I've carpooled to work a few times, but since we ditched static shifts and went to a dynamic dispatch it takes more time to coordinate than it's worth. What does that have to do with my track days though? Or were you just being clever? :iono:

Both my RX and Talon are manual transmissions mate. Been driving them since 01 and 00 respectively. :party0030:

When did I mention having issues driving in gridlock? I'm from south Jersey, used to work in downtown Philly. I'm perfectly capable of driving in gridlock traffic with a MT. I said I'm open to the idea of an AT that yields the same performance. Where do F1 cars come into this?

Sorry, I should have explained myself better. My father and I want a car to share and enjoy together. I'm 16, and as of now I am not able to get a car, nor drive it (no lincence yet, legal reasons, I wasn't born here, long story) so, my dad knows my dream car is the AE86 (There's a story behind it, I've mentioned it here before) and when I heard the successor was going to be affordable, simple, and a great driver, my dad and I were hooked. No, I'm not "rich" we simply want a car (my first) to enjoy together :) I didn't mean to get flamed for saying what I did before ^_^

PS - ha, btw, you guys should see my High-school parkinglot! 370Z, Gencoupe (x2), 2009 Corvette C6 (he's 17), VW R32, 2JZ-240SX, 3 Speed3's, etc. (All ages 16-17) ha!

Why is it that everybody always relate driving a manual to being a manly man??? I know a gay guy who drives manual for a living. And as far as your sexual comment about auto's vs manual's that is the most retarded thing you can put on the internet. I wish you knew the women I have done in so you could ask them about me. I'm pretty sure there are manual drivers out there who get cheated on by there women by guys driving auto's. Trust me..:bellyroll:

:laughabove:

Making a comparison between AT/MT drivers and love making is something I only expected to see on Chevy or Ford forums from middle aged men from Arkansas. As immature as these topics can get, I'm truly surprised to see it on here. Bravo. lol

+1.

Real men like the feel of a solid shaft in their hands when they're doing something exciting. We like it to stand firm and erect with precise, solid movements between positions. No flopping around!

:laughabove:

So much testosterone in the last few posts.




The essence of MAN now shows itself. lolol

There is nothing wrong with owning a nice car in school. Not to brag, but I was the kid in school known for driving the turbocharged Porsche ;)
No one knew I paid for it tho because I was probably the only one who's parents didn't have money...

and umm... I may be gay, and I may drive a stick... (no pun intended).
But I would never buy an automatic.
When I drive, I want to be the one in control of the car. Without launch control, you can't really get a good jump like giving it a few rpm's and letting the clutch out. An automatic isn't going to give you the benefits of a stick. Sorry.

I'm not against gay people but I am against people who make it seem like you must be gay to drive a automatic/dsg sports car.

Wow this thread has really gone through many topics!!

At the end of the day neither groups will see the others point of view as its stands the auto people enjoy that crazy amount of drivers feel they get from flicking a paddle and the manual people love the act of being in control, the speed they shift at the way the clutch is engaged and the tecnique involved in rev matching and heel toeing and the higher amount of "technicality and involvement driving a manual car requires"
So does driving a manual car make the driver much more involved and engaged with the car flat out yes it does. It requires more skill and precision to accomplish the same thing as a auto/dsg car of equivalent nature.:happy0180:

thats my 2cents love it or hate it but it is the truth.:thanks:

You take lots of value in what people you don't know think about you, and you're insecure about driving an automatic sports car. We get it.