Your argument of BRZ cannibalization doesn't hold up in the rest of the world where the GT86 will compete against the BRZ with much of the same base equipment.

IMO Hollis is a tool, and partly responsible for the ruination of the Scion brand. When they debuted, I definitely rooted for them, but lord how they managed to change something that could have been awesome into something so... what it is now.

Excellent Video


yeah, I don't always agree with Leo, but he hits the nail on the head. Dead center.

Since it's been know that the car might be a Scion, this is what I've said (apart from the bitching and moaning) they had to do to make it work. Get serious, be authentic. Leave the shenanigans behind, stop trying to act cool. Grassroots motor sports. SCCA. Real racing. Heck, Make a GT3 spec car and send it to ALMS. Just get with the program. No real enthusiast is going to love a poseur brand. Sure, keep on drifting, no problem. Now that you've got a real platform though, I'm sure you can stop throwing money at the guys and world racing and let them come to you.

/rant.


Now about that Kei-Truck.... :D

Anybody else hoping that the FR-S comes in significantly lighter than the BRZ?

List of potential weight savings:
-HVAC
-Power/Heat/Fabric in seats
-Sound deadening
-Mirrors
-Audio (no premium amp)
-Headlights


I'm really hoping that the FR-S comes in significantly lighter, as this has implications on the autox classes excluding SM and above. For STS and Stock classes, this could be a nice advantage over the BRZ.

Ichi said weight would be similar between the two +/- a few lbs difference.

I can't respond with merit to your point because I don't work for Toyota or Subaru and can't confirm potential for cannibalization; I just spoke from previous auto experiences that have put higher-trim standard models in direct competition with their platform counterparts which are premium.

I believe though when they designed the FR-S for Scion, the intent was to keep it super grass-roots and not offer a premium trim in an effort to capture the new college graduate. The BRZ and the 86/ GT 86 globally will be priced for a more mature demographic and I would even say that the trim levels will be quite varied depending on the market where the car is being sold.

I'm hoping I make sense...if not I will be open to (positive and mature) feedback

Does no one read the news? The Japanese yen is worth much more than our u.s. dollar. Toyota has lost MILLIONS just converting their profit into yen. Thats why we get the cheaper cars. If our version of the 86 was equal to theirs, it would cost so much more than the low 20's where it's expected. It's not toyotas fault, it's the governments fault, so get off this forum, and join OWS if you want to complain about it.

Also all the stuff is already there, there's no development cost making the stuff for the frs, all the cars are being built in the same plant. Basically just have to check it off on a list and you could have all the same stuff.

i really like the car so far! Scion kept more than i expected. although i will miss the switches... They make me feel like driving a fighter jet :p

Function > Form

i hope people realize that the hvac unit is the same shape as the better looking one and i am willing to bet it has the same damn connector on the back. i may be optimistic but i doubt they changed the wiring harness to for different hvac controlls. i bet there is a plug behind the hvac unit not doing anything and is there for dual climate control.

HVAC difference = a temp sensor inside the car and maybe some minor weight differences in the units themselves because of the displays.

Fabric weight will be similar, I didn't see power seats on the 86/BRZ but maybe they are there (never actually looked I just assumed they'd be manually adjusted).. I'd prefer manual so hopefully not. Seat heating elements MIGHT be a couple of lbs.

Sound deadening should be the same, we haven't heard any rumors of differences there.

Mirrors? You mean the frame vs frameless (which we don't even know if the US BRZ comes with).. those have to be close to equal in weight. If the frameless is the same minus the frame then the FR-S one would be heavier, not lighter.

Audio.. they each have 8 speakers, just a different headunit. Most likely both systems are just 4 channel head units with a built in amp... the display/nav system will weight more, but again.. we are talking ounces to maybe a pound here.

Headlights, both cars have them. The balasts and such will add a little weight to the BRZ.. I'd give you maybe a couple of lbs.

So from those differences I'd guess a 10lb difference at the most.

There's an OWS thread already, take that to there if you want to discuss the failure of the PEOPLE.

I agree, the unappreciative should purchase another car that's a driving appliance. I want to be the only guy around here autocrossing for a little bit, but will welcome with open arms another FR-S/ BRZ driver to compete with.