If anything it seems like there'd be more options for Scion, given that it's the brand that emphasizes customizing and tuning--for better or for worse. I doubt brand identity would impact your choice of options much.

Perception-wise, Toyota branding would feel more mature and grown up, but seems like that's a double-edged sword too.

'No options' is part of the Scion strategy. You can only choose dealer installed stuff.

And I won't pay dealer rates to have an LSD installed. For reference, the Scion tC LSD is $1,350 and they'll charge you at least $1,000 to install it.

Worst case scenario, you can always buy the TRD LSD and install it yourself or bring it somewhere else.
You'll get what you want in the end.

I would. That's my point. But I'd much rather just have a factory warrantied one as an option for $500. And they usually run only that much as a factory option.

Some sales figures from http://www.helloscion.com/en/History.aspx

2004: 99,259
2005: 156,485
2006: 173,034
2007: 130,181
2008: 113,904
2009: 57,961
2010: Only Jan and Feb numbers (6,062 in 2 months extrapolate that to est. 36,372 for the year).

Will the FT86 be well-served by this poorly-performing brand?

Will the future of Toyota sports cars be well-served by making the FT86 a Scion?

There is no way that the FT86 as a Scion will help them recover 100,000 units per year, even by the trickle-down sales effect of a halo car, leading people into xB's or tC's.

Kill the goddamn brand already and free up corporate resources for engineering. Toyota tried almost the exact same system as GM did with Saturn (youth oriented, fixed pricing, a different 'feel'). It didn't work for GM and it's not working for Toyota.

The Scion brand was made because of the failed "Project Genesis"

Project Genesis included selling the latest generation MR2 spyder, Celica, and Echo under the Toyota badge. None of which saw successful or consistent sales figures. Toyota scrapped "Project Genesis" and soon after they began Scion.

I'm betting Toyota is following the "history repeats itself" mantra with the FT86, and probably secretly hoping to show GM that they Scion was/is better than Saturn.

Project genesis failed because they didn't bother to make an awd turbo Celica for that generation, and only put 130hp in the MR-S while making it woefully impractical and charging $25k for it (still love them both to bits though). The Echo was just....... slow and ugly :barf:

Here, the product failed as well as the marketing.

My opinion is that the product was made to fit the marketing (in this case targeting Generation Y), and not the other (proper) way around of starting with a good product and trying to figure out how to sell it to as many people as possible.

Marketing demographics are very fluid and can change rapidly, designing a product line (especially a very expensive investment-requirement one like a car) around a specific demographic is retarded. This may work well in the short term, but as shown by Scion's RAPIDLY declining sales, not so much in the long term as the target evolves and changes.

And check this out, bios on the people in charge of the Scion site I got the numbers from, which hasn't been updated since early last year (signs of things to come?).

http://www.helloscion.com/Bio.aspx

Jack Hollis, VP Scion; and Dawn Ahmed, Corporate Manager Scion.

Read these bios, and ask yourself if these people have ANY business being involved with the performance side of a automotive company.

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011...-s-in-usa.aspx

Dimman. Were you disguised as h3ae86 on that page? The last sentence just sounds like something you would say. Or someone else really shares your opinion.

Not long enough, and not enough hateful ranting to be me. Heh...

(My sig is a WAY toned down version if what I really feel...)

Edit:

I appreciate how this guy thinks (wonder if he really is a former Toyota rep, and sure hope the 'confirmation' isn't true...):

We won't know until it goes on sale, but Scion could be creating a marketing scheme made specifically for this car. Car companies stir up new mottos, taglines, etc etc. all the time. Some even go through a complete re-imagination. There is the chance that Scion will be "reborn".
If this "new scion" is all about giving more cool cars then I'm all for it.

If they think they can just squeeze the 86 into the current Scion then I will have to side with all of you saying it will end badly.

Depends on how specific. If you only target 18yr old males, that's too specific, because you're right in saying their ideals and preferences change each generation. I think Scion right now is just on the edge of being too specific.

Car brands are purposely geared towards a set group of people. If everyone was making everything it'd be a bit strange. Buick is geared towards the older individual in a way that Subaru would never be, or probably would never want to be. When you target a general age group, you can be assured that the there will always be a new set to replace the old (When teens become adults, kids become teens and thus fills the void. cycle cycle cycle.)

I think Scion's decline in sales is due more to the fact that they haven't made any progress since their debut line. The newest model they've added is the tC and that was all the way back in 2004/05 and it's revamp this year isn't as great as it should be.

The 2nd generation of the xB and the xA/xD weren't great leaps forward either. Added onto that the countless hoards of "release edition" models with nothing more than fancy paint and a higher price tag.

When has company made more money by not doing anything? Hopefully they are now aware of this.

I'll give Toyota/Scion the benefit of the doubt on this one. They should take care of those extra lives while they still got'em.

Sounds like the Chevy Cruze -- which is a big load of fail IMO.

Prefer the Cruze to the Cobalt. kinda.

Ok, I can agree with that -- but its still a fail campaign.