Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Toyota rules out GT 86 hybrid due to projected lack of demand (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67648)

vh_supra26 06-09-2014 05:20 PM
Toyota 86 hybrid technically feasible, but won’t be built – report
 
http://www.caradvice.com.au/thumb/77...s-on-track.jpg

Quote:
Despite reports that development of a hybrid version of the Toyota 86 was quite advanced, it appears as though project has been halted due to a poor business case.

Fabio Capano, director of product communications at Toyota Europe, told Autocar: “We can create a product with this technology, but it needs to make proper business sense. We have to prioritise.” He added that a hybrid 86 might not “speak to the majority”.

Last year Koei Saga, senior manager for drivetrain engineering, said that work on a Toyota 86 hybrid was moving along and that a green light for the project “won’t be very far in the future”.

Currently the only engine offered to buyers of the Toyota 86 and its Subaru BRZ sibling is a 147kW/205Nm 2.0-litre four-cylinder boxer motor driving the rear wheels. Although a hybrid version of the 86 would be heavier the regular car, it would have more power and torque, as well as, possibly, a manual transmission.

Widely praised by the motoring media, the Toyota 86, which is sold as the Scion FR-S in North America and Toyota GT86 in Europe, has failed to set sales charts alight in most major markets.

Since its launch at the beginning of 2012 just 100,000 Toyota 86s have been sold worldwide. The car is disproportionately popular in Australia, with 10,000 sold since the car became available in June 2012. This means that about 10 per cent of the world’s Toyota 86 population lives in Australia.

Gerald Killmann, vice president of European research and development, told AutoExpress earlier this year that “a faster version of [the Toyota 86] would be at the top of most people’s wish lists, but like the cabriolet, it is hard to justify a business case to push either model into production based on the current sales.”

Toyota displayed the FT-86 Open concept at the 2013 Geneva motor show. Although the concept car looked practically production ready, it has yet to be confirmed for manufacture. Indeed, not long after its debut, the project was rumoured to have been shut down. This was followed soon after by a denial of that report from the car’s chief engineer.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/289836/t...wont-be-built/

Roadcone 06-09-2014 05:22 PM
can we just go ahead and kill small hybrids? they dont work... escalade hybrid... works... CRZ... doesnt at all...

gymratter 06-09-2014 09:41 PM
it seems no one wanted a hybrid 86/FRS anyways.

jjaisli 06-10-2014 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gymratter (Post 1787215)
That was under a different CEO.... they have tons of money they are just sitting on. Toyota has always been the most profitable and highest value automaker so idk what are trying to say.
It may have been a different CEO but Toyota is not unique in killing off small, sporty, 2+2 cars. It's been a general, over-all trend over the last 15 years and a very sad one. I had HOPED that the FT86 platform would herald a return of sorts, and it may still be, but I'm simply not as optimistic as you.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say about Toyota being the "most profitable". Although there's some irony that the one manufacturer that killed off ALL of their sports cars is so successful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymratter (Post 1787215)
thats actually BS. Akio pushed the Toyota board to built both the LFA and 86. you do know that whole Lexus line doesn't really make any money for Toyota.... but they still do it.
As far as I can tell, that is completely false.

Read here:

Toyota doesn’t disclose financial details for the brand, said Greg Thome, a Lexus spokesman. He declined to confirm a 2004 estimate from former Lexus general manager Denny Clements that, depending on sales volume, product cycles and exchange rates, Lexus generated more than half of Toyota’s U.S. earnings in some years.

“Luxury vehicles are always more profitable. The margins are higher, the absolute dollars are higher,” said Efraim Levy, a New York-based equity analyst for Standard & Poor’s. “Lexus has been one of the drivers for Toyota’s rapid earnings growth in North America in recent years.”

Link: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Kg&refer=japan

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymratter (Post 1787215)
Um why the hell would Toyota make a hybrid $35k FRS to began with? this is a cheap affordable car. keeping it as it makes sense. again, there has been no official word on a drop top so... ok i never said there was a market for a hybrid did i????
The $35K is just your own speculation. But honestly, I don't have a clue. I wouldn't want one. But the car was under development. And apparently won't go into production.

paulca 06-10-2014 06:27 AM
Formula 1 cars do pretty well this season with hybrid tech. Faster, more torque. They just don't make the music like they used to, they are however hoping to address that in the next gen.

Vides990 06-10-2014 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjaisli (Post 1787189)
Knowledge and truth
You're wasting your time going back and forth with these guys. Most of the people here have no clue about economics and company product and developement lines and just think because they want it, it will be made (turbo version xyz).

Reading between the lines regarding sales and corporate comments it'll be interesting where this car goes in the future. People say the sales are strong but with the FRS/BRZ barely outselling the Miata and Nissan Z lines already then they aren't really doing well because those platforms are years old. I agree with you, there's a shaky out look currently for this vehicle moving forward.

Also, the idea that Lexus doesn't make money for Toyato is one of the best I've ever read, that guys an idiot hahaha.

gymratter 06-10-2014 08:55 AM
what a load of crap :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjaisli (Post 1788287)
It may have been a different CEO but Toyota is not unique in killing off small, sporty, 2+2 cars. It's been a general, over-all trend over the last 15 years and a very sad one. I had HOPED that the FT86 platform would herald a return of sorts, and it may still be, but I'm simply not as optimistic as you.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say about Toyota being the "most profitable". Although there's some irony that the one manufacturer that killed off ALL of their sports cars is so successful.

So you're saying because those other CEO killed off past sports cars that the current CEO Akio (who brought us the LFA, 86, RC-F, LC, and GS-F) will do the same...

Im optimistic because Akio Toyoda is a true enthusiast. he has already stated that the company will be moving in a different direction. and we can clearly see the change, or at least I can.

That means they will always have tons of cash to play around with. Where Did Toyota ever said the trio weren't successful? Just because the car is doing bad in Europe doesn't mean it isn't successful.

also that 100k goal a year was made by Subaru, not Toyota ;)

As far as I can tell, that is completely false.

Read here:

Toyota doesn’t disclose financial details for the brand, said Greg Thome, a Lexus spokesman. He declined to confirm a 2004 estimate from former Lexus general manager Denny Clements that, depending on sales volume, product cycles and exchange rates, Lexus generated more than half of Toyota’s U.S. earnings in some years.

“Luxury vehicles are always more profitable. The margins are higher, the absolute dollars are higher,” said Efraim Levy, a New York-based equity analyst for Standard & Poor’s. “Lexus has been one of the drivers for Toyota’s rapid earnings growth in North America in recent years.”

Link: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Kg&refer=japan

Key word is estimated...

and that is total BS

Lexus sales 200-300k cars a year.
Toyota on the other hand sales about 1.5-2 million cars a year. you are telling me that 200-300k units of Lexus makes up half of Toyota's earnings?

The $35K is just your own speculation. But honestly, I don't have a clue. I wouldn't want one. But the car was under development. And apparently won't go into production.

Actually its not... reports have stated that a hybrid 86 would be around that ball park ;)

they have a few test mules running around. thats pretty common in the auto industry. plus they could use what they learn in other Toyota cars.

gymratter 06-10-2014 09:06 AM
:bonk:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vides990 (Post 1788404)
You're wasting your time going back and forth with these guys. Most of the people here have no clue about economics and company product and developement lines and just think because they want it, it will be made (turbo version xyz).

I never said anything about a turbo version but good try

Also the economy is getting better. thats why Toyota and Lexus are making
  • RC-F
    GS-F
    LC
    FT-1


Reading between the lines regarding sales and corporate comments it'll be interesting where this car goes in the future. People say the sales are strong but with the FRS/BRZ barely outselling the Miata and Nissan Z lines already then they aren't really doing well because those platforms are years old. I agree with you, there's a shaky out look currently for this vehicle moving forward.

Guess you need to learn better math skills... idiot

2013
370z: 6,561

Miata: 5,780

FR-S : 18,327

BRZ: 8,587

Also, the idea that Lexus doesn't make money for Toyato is one of the best I've ever read, that guys an idiot hahaha.

NO one said that. please learn to read....

What I say Lexus doesn't make that much money for the brand. Same as the FRS/86. do you not understand that was the comparison...

paulca 06-10-2014 09:18 AM
Forum needs a knicker detwisting machine.

vh_supra26 06-10-2014 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vides990 (Post 1788404)
You're wasting your time going back and forth with these guys. Most of the people here have no clue about economics and company product and developement lines and just think because they want it, it will be made (turbo version xyz).

Reading between the lines regarding sales and corporate comments it'll be interesting where this car goes in the future. People say the sales are strong but with the FRS/BRZ barely outselling the Miata and Nissan Z lines already then they aren't really doing well because those platforms are years old. I agree with you, there's a shaky out look currently for this vehicle moving forward.

Also, the idea that Lexus doesn't make money for Toyato is one of the best I've ever read, that guys an idiot hahaha.
I actually took a few economic classes so I do have a basic understanding.

So Toyota will built the LF-LC, RC-F, and GS-F. Which will be selling at a very very low volume but they will not make a mass production second generation 86?

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/w...LF_LC_Blue.jpg
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/w...-spy-photo.jpg
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/w...lexus-rc-f.jpg

I'm not wishing or wanting anything. Its been stated by the chief engineer that a second generation is underway.

Who am I going to believe? Tada san or you? I will gladly go with chief engineer's quote over a fanboys any day.

What is Toyato? Oh, you mean Toyota...

Dezoris 06-10-2014 09:20 AM
They have already sold.more Frs/brz/gt86 in 1.5 years than Honda did with the S2000 in 9,years.
Don't think there is a problem with sales for a niche market car

They have a great chassis, give it.the.power it needs and they will have the premium buyers as well coming in.

jjaisli 06-10-2014 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vides990 (Post 1788404)
Reading between the lines regarding sales and corporate comments it'll be interesting where this car goes in the future. People say the sales are strong but with the FRS/BRZ barely outselling the Miata and Nissan Z lines already then they aren't really doing well because those platforms are years old. I agree with you, there's a shaky out look currently for this vehicle moving forward.
I think the real key will be where sales are throughout the 2015 model year. By that point, the newness will have worn off, the early adopters will have moved on and it will be around the time that Toyota/Subaru are finalizing plans for a model refresh (if there is one). And if they can maintain the same sales momentum into it's 4th year, I'd like to think the car will continue. If sales drop off another 30+%, I think it not only has implications for Toyota but for the industry as a whole.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Vides990 06-10-2014 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gymratter (Post 1788418)
keeps trying and failing
Lol, you're not worth the time, I'm out. Enjoy these links, yes the FRS/BRZ is selling more (really only the FRS) but not that much more considering it's a new platform vs. an old platform. :thumbsup:


Miata: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

370Z: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

BRZ: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html

FRS: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html

gymratter 06-10-2014 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vides990 (Post 1788444)
Lol, you're not worth the time, I'm out. Enjoy these links, yes the FRS/BRZ is selling more (really only the FRS) but not that much more considering it's a new platform vs. an old platform. :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by gymratter http://www.ft86club.com/forums/third...s/viewpost.gif
thats actually BS. Akio pushed the Toyota board to built both the LFA and 86. you do know that whole Lexus line doesn't really make any money for Toyota.... but they still do it.

Miata: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

370Z: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

BRZ: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html

FRS: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html
And your a damn idiot...

307z in 2009 is 13,117
MX-5 in 2006 is 16,897

sales of the twins are much higher than both...

18,327 FRS + 8,587 BRZ = 26,914

simply math skills
(26,914 > 13,117)
(26,914 > 16,897)

Ok, you were the one that said the Lexus line didn't make money.

I never said such a thing. but nice try pointing out your own stupidity...


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