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-   -   Sports cars: a mid-market hole? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41287)

serialk11r 07-12-2013 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimman (Post 1065371)
If it just had a same era Celica style front end, 2zz/6M, and hard top this forum probably wouldn't exist. Make the FR-S look fat and slow.

Well, we do have to remember that while it's sad that the 2ZZ and K20 died off, those engines don't pass the latest emissions tests so they would've been scrapped anyways.

Snoopyalien24 07-12-2013 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise (Post 1060954)
That mid-market hole is why I'm driving an FR-S. There's really nothing as lightweight or responsive until you hit Cayman territory.

If you're willing to buy used, the Cayman S and Lotus Elise would fit the bill nicely.

If you don't mind lack of space and a roof, the MX-5 is the next best thing

Dimman 07-12-2013 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialk11r (Post 1065554)
Well, we do have to remember that while it's sad that the 2ZZ and K20 died off, those engines don't pass the latest emissions tests so they would've been scrapped anyways.

D4-S 2zz, problem solved. But if we are talking same era, it really should have been done.

At the very least they could have maintained continuous performance development, and possibly the FR-S would have been closer to the concept in weight, and maybe my 220bhp/170 lb-ft fantasy due to existing performance expectations. But alas that is nothing but a 'what if' fantasy...

serialk11r 07-12-2013 10:37 PM

Well luckily Toyota likes to tune cars ultra rich to protect the cats for emissions so the FRS is essentially 215bhp ish.

I don't think the 2ZZ's problem could be fixed so easily, and it would lose performance from shorter headers and extra cats. However, I do think that if they were able to make a 1ZZ-FED, they should be able to make a 1ZR-FED but this time using forged rods so they can give it more than just 300rpm. The newer Toyota engines all have ceramic cylinder coatings too (and better flowing heads), which makes high revs less hard on the bore, so they really only have to just drop in a bigger intake cam and call it a day. It only has to make 140hp to be an improvement over the old engine (same power but less displacement, 15lbs lighter and more efficient), and a GM style mild hybrid system that is literally a bolt on swap would get you the tiny bit more torque that would make it feel like a 1.8L instead of a 1.6 at a cost of 1000 dollars.

SUB-FT86 07-13-2013 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZDan (Post 1064639)
I sooo wanted to love that car. But chrissakes, why couldn't they have made it look less like this:
http://i2.squidoocdn.com/resize/squi...ar_of_soap.JPG

and more like this:
http://therantsandraves.com/lotus/wp...3773_600px.jpg
??!!

I so friggin agree with this! Toyota needs to make a new MR2 with Ferrari or Lamborghini or Lotus inspired styling.

DarkSunrise 07-13-2013 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24 (Post 1065643)
If you don't mind lack of space and a roof, the MX-5 is the next best thing

Yep definitely. If I lived somewhere with better top-down weather, I'd have thought hard about one. Especially like the "club-edition" trim they've got this year.

thill 07-13-2013 10:11 AM

I agree with much of what has been written here. The GT cars (which I would classify the Gencoupe, Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, etc) are larger, heavier cars that rely on big tires for traction and cornering and high horsepower engines to move the mass.

Toyota and Subaru could have brought another of these types of cars to market but decided to go after a segment which has somewhat died. An inexpensive RWD sports coupe that handled like it was on rails, was lightweight, and a car that could rely on the aftermarket for those that want 300hp+.

I think we will see more competition in the space. I am hoping the Mustang will lose a bunch of weight, and that Hyundai will do the same with the Gencoupe and make both cars more "sporty" .


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