Originally Posted by Mr.Jay (Post 73676)

it damn better be with the years of technology and a turbo but unlike the ae86 however it will never be a timeless car or considered a classic

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 73647)

its also why the cobalt ss destroys the s2k in the scca runoffs or maybe why the mini changed the touring car races overnight. or why the ms3 is better than the ae86....all rhetoric aside i still dont understand what makes fwd cars understeer on off camber downhill turns than a rwd car

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay (Post 73676)

it damn better be with the years of technology and a turbo but unlike the ae86 however it will never be a timeless car or considered a classic

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 73690)

the ae86 is not a timeless car. it looks like it was from the 80s but i guess ill agree with the classic thing. my point was that rwd>fwd isnt an absolute term like people are using it.

Originally Posted by 4agze (Post 73694)

[u2b]4z2oZAkWQeM[/u2b]
If you dont get it shown by Japanese pro driver on that video then you dont get it, its same thing why you dont get why people cares about higher rev limit?what more can I do? maybe a picture illustration may help? if this dont work I dont know other way?

Understeer going down hill (NO:cry: bad)
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/d...understeer.gif

if the Mazda speed 3 with a turbo is not better than the 26yrs old AE86 a car that has 1.6liter 112bhp Jujiro Matsuda will roll over his grave

Originally Posted by 4agze (Post 73695)

i cant even believe he compared a car thats 26yrs old vs car thats less than 5 years that has more advance tech & more power kinda stupid :iono:






say that to millions of people from Japan,UK & USA who go yearly to AE86 festivals.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/d...estival093.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/d...lvin/p2-15.jpg

say that to pro drivers who owns a AE86
Nobuteru Taniguchi
Keiichi tsuchiya
Ueo Katsuhiro
Ken Gushi
Alex Phifer
Taka Aono
Manabu Orido
Akira Iida

I dont see people doing a mazdaspeed 3 festival all around the world

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 73794)

you have proved that there is one fwd car that is worse than one rwd car. i get that but it is a far stretch from rwd > fwd period. do you see what im saying?

i also understand that a fwd may understeer going downhill in this situation you have set up but what i dont get is why you think it will understeer more than a rwd car might

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 73799)

how is it stupid? what is stupid is saying blanket statements like rwd >fwd period and then thinking im out of line for disproving them. according to that criteria it makes perfect sense to compare the two. people racing/drifting a car doesnt mean its timeless. it doesnt even mean they think its timeless. and if that was enough for you, half those people dont even drive corollas anymore. ill admit its becoming a classic but gatherings dont make a car classic. there is an annual pontiac aztec rally. timeless? geo metro club. timeless?

i had an ae86 for years and i liked it but it wasnt really anything special

Originally Posted by 4agze (Post 72653)

yes its a track at night lol but thats like 7yrs ago I dont do it anymore

only thing I see wrong with a fwd is when elevation change like down hill & off camber turns a fwd will understeer but got to admire how well build a ITR, I remember back then when honda stated that they will bring the ITR here in US soil on limited number & it will be under the acura name and as i remember a lot of honda heads rolled and at the end acura Type-R was a success actually sold out half before it hit the showroom. this reminds you of anything like what going on with the scion FRS right now.

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 73965)

yeah i dont mean to be attacking you if thats what it sounds like. when you said this i kinda inferred that you were talking about only fwd since you bothered to mention that fact. i als assumed that when you quoted someone saying rwd > fwd period and then said thats why they dont make fwd supercars that you agreed with the statement made. i dont think i was really out of line for jumping to either of those conclusions.

at the end of the day is still dont see how this car is going to be sportier or faster or whatever were measuring when compared to the itr

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63 (Post 73995)

At 200hp, AWD FWD RWD doesn't matter

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63 (Post 73995)

I'm sorry, but there are only 2 performance focused situations where "RWD > FWD" is NOT true. Reason #1: when I'm driving on a slick surface. Reason #2: when we're talking about 100-300hp turds. There is a reason that the term FWD Supercar is an oxymoron. (Waits for someone to link some exception the the rule.)

When it comes down to ideal track conditions (anything but ice) FWD has zero performance advantages over RWD. With equal power, handling, tires, weight distribution, etc, a RWD car will handle as good or better than a FWD car. At 200hp, AWD FWD RWD doesn't matter, the cars are just powerful enough to have fun in, but not powerful enough to really maximize their (AWD & RWD) potential. The more power you add, to both cars, the more noticeable the RWD's advantage over the FWD becomes.

ITR's were (and still are) badass cars. I used to love going to ITR racedays and meets with my Honda buddies with me in my Talon and a few other DSMers. It was a really fun rivalry we had back then, but a 250fwhp ITR wasn't touching my stock RX7. Let alone a 350fwhp against my 350rwhp RX7.

All that said, I don't think the FR-S will beat the ITR in any performance categories right out of the box. I just hope the FRS platform is one that improves as you throw more power at it.

Originally Posted by fatoni (Post 73965)

yeah i dont mean to be attacking you if thats what it sounds like. when you said this i kinda inferred that you were talking about only fwd since you bothered to mention that fact. i als assumed that when you quoted someone saying rwd > fwd period and then said thats why they dont make fwd supercars that you agreed with the statement made. i dont think i was really out of line for jumping to either of those conclusions.

at the end of the day is still dont see how this car is going to be sportier or faster or whatever were measuring when compared to the itr

Originally Posted by 4agze (Post 74015)

Thats ok No harm No foul, On the super car I was just stating the fact that no super car was made under a fwd config, I know you'll jump on that quick and loose focus on the debate thats why you added the ae86 vs the MS3 cuz, you know how proud I am on my ae86 and knowing a fwd car is faster better will hurt my ego right? but you didnt count on the years and tech between both cars.