The only thing less engaging than a tc auto is a cvt. The car is meant to be fun to drive not fade into the background like an impala or camry.
The slush box in the twins still won't shift into 1st or 2nd very well and is a bit slow. If it allowed for complete control minus obvious over rev down shifts I wouldn't shit on it as then the only major difference would be a clutch pedal.

Also for slower cars the gear ratios matter significantly more than the shift times unless you're actually a grandma. Autos in more expensive cars have better gearing because they can program them to cheat the sound and fuel regulation tests. Porsche's going 90 in 2nd gear is for noise.
Hagerty has a video on this if my rambling is less coherent than I think it is.

what do you mean it doesn't shift into 1st or 2nd very well...? I was always in M mode when I owned my auto FRS and I experienced zero gear change hesitation unless you're asking the car to overrev which the computer would obviously not allow. every time I came to a stop I would use as much engine braking as I could before needing to use the brakes, had no issues downshifiting from around 5 k rpms to redline with previous gear.. the auto trans does give you complete control, no auto up shifts and there ain't any rev limiter with downshifting as long as theres enough revs..

the tc in the twin's doesn't suck the fun out of the twins. still a torqueless engine but with underrated power at top of rev band, still great throttle control and still amazing handling. what does a tc change exactly..? not like you're slamming gears as fast as possible 100% of the time when you drive a manual either but yet you need the computer to slam gears instantly even when you're cruising around at 20 mph lol wut

It does downshift from 2–>1 pretty slow but I figured that’s expected manual or auto. Also I have never actually needed to do that except bumping it with knee or being annoying. Weird arguing point imo

I wonder how many people complaining of how quickly an auto downshifts can heel toe properly :popcorn:

If you can't, then you probably are not any quicker then the auto lol

hey! i have heels and toes!

Not sure what to tell you, it's definitely slow to respond. Maybe you haven't driven manual that long.

No who can drive manual and wants to enjoy driving would buy a car like this in auto.

My 4runner is fun to drive but for completely different reasons and that's fine, just don't lie to yourself and others and claim that there is no difference.

I think there's a lot of new buyers that don't have experience with a manual. Makes choosing the automatic a lot easier. It can be intimidating. It's still fun but not nearly as fun as a manual when you know what you're doing. As to which is faster? I'll never know because I have no interest in even trying an automatic. A quartz watch will keep better time than a mechanical. Still prefer the tactile feel of a manual wind and shifting my own gears, though. Analog & fun thing.

I wish more folks purchased manual 86's, because that would mean my local Toyota dealership would stop getting so many damn automatic GR86's...and I'd potentially get my car sooner.

I have a manual BRZ. I am almost 38 and have only owned two autos in my life, one being my truck to tow the car to the track. What I am saying is real simple. In most common driving situations it is down to preference, which should be manual. Driving spiritedly, most people don't have the skill to out downshift an auto anyway even if it does feel slow to them.

I have however, driven a 14' FRS Monogram in auto and, it wasn't that bad. My CAD guy had one as a commuter for a long time.

Both are still slower than a minivan, so there’s that. Both are great on twisty roads. Just get the one you want that fits your life. The AT is no PDK, if it was half the MT guys would be PDKing it, just like the Porsche guys. Not a dig on MT at all, just what’s happening.

I choose to row because I want to row. In fact, I eliminate any car that doesn’t give me that option. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with how good/fast the “automatic” option is. I always assumed that that was true of 80/90 percent of the MT buyers. You are saying 50%? I don’t buy it …

I agree. "Half" is a stretch but there are some that would jump ship for a DCT, and it would be even more fun to talk smack about them. ;)

Agree, I've had DSGs and driven PDKs, it's just as boring just a bit quicker shifting. I wouldn't have bought the 86 if it wasn't MT
:)

I own both of these and have a manual GR86 on deposit. Porsche’s Pdk was so good that I ordered both my Pcars in Pdk with sports chrono. It’s not a replacement for a manual but a different Motorsports experience. Hitting both paddles goes into neutral, preboost and overboost functions, full control over gears.. it’s great. It’s simply perfect less the third pedal.

For lower horse power cars, I prefer manual. I feel like I can utilize and extract more of the slower cars engine with manual then higher hp cars.
Lastly.. I will reiterate that the Autobox for the twins are still trash and lack any Motorsport feel. They were made for manuals and the Autoboxed is an after thought. I get that if they gave it a good auto tranny, it would raise the auto prices by a big margin.

https://i.postimg.cc/nhksy5V1/1098-B...FCFAA85-B6.jpg