Originally Posted by DarkSunrise (Post 1629813)

All things considered, it's a minor miracle that the seats in the Twins are so good.

Originally Posted by NickFRS (Post 1629738)

My uncle owns a cayman S. I've road raced with him before. I thought we were talking cayman? Cayman S are like 66k off showroom.

I bought n STi for AWD and boost. Where I live we have MT Hood. I drove F-Sunday to snowboard the whole season in 2011-2012. 70mph with studded snows for days. Traded in the STi for my FRS + Cash and now my wife has a 2014 WRX. I'm not a fan of the 2015 WRX so i oppted out. Sold my dad the 400WHP 400WTQ 02 WRX. I've owned fast cars. At my age a proche isn't realistic. Maybe when i'm 40. Also look at the end of page 5. I wasn't the one comparing to a Cayman. ;)

Cheers.

P.s only thing i hated about my 11 STi was the damn seats. The ass warmers were nice in a -20 blizard though

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...19363823_n.jpg

Also can't do rallyx in a cayman.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...33170021_n.jpg

Originally Posted by Wandr3r (Post 1631597)

Soo as far as 15 BRZ's... I have something for you guys. However I cannot elaborate until we get closer to launch. I will post when I can. ;)

Originally Posted by Wandr3r (Post 1631597)

Soo as far as 15 BRZ's... I have something for you guys. However I cannot elaborate until we get closer to launch. I will post when I can. ;)

Originally Posted by raven1231 (Post 1622815)

That would be the new 2.0s 260hp engine that I mention earlier :drool:

Originally Posted by beagoodruslan (Post 1623903)

Am I the only one that wants this car to be discontinued? Then I can sell it for more in the future!

Originally Posted by chrisl (Post 1625834)

You think a turbo would add $17,500 to the cost of the car? That seems a bit unrealistic.

Originally Posted by Dark (Post 1628715)

I'm picking up 15 WRX Limited loaded at 32K, but I will not defend econobox interior in WRX/STI. Yes, it has AWD, space, value proposition for a performance car, but if I can afford a Cayman, I would pick it over STI. I sat in both 2014 WRX/STI for a few hours while test driving it against BRZ Limited. It has the most uncomfortable seat I ever sit in. Interior material is nowhere close the one in Honda Civic. Do yourself a favor, test drive a Cayman S.

Originally Posted by Wandr3r (Post 1631597)

Soo as far as 15 BRZ's... I have something for you guys. However I cannot elaborate until we get closer to launch. I will post when I can. ;)

Originally Posted by regal (Post 1631981)

The only way they could get 260 hp out of 2L is FI. It must be the variation of the FA20T that fits, the one Toyota forced Subaru to shelve. With the FT-1 now we know why.

Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 1632032)

Source? .

Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 1632032)

Nonsense. "Get the feeling"? You read way too much into what is marketing/fluff material. The FT-1 does not even come close to competing in the same arena as the twins. It is like speculating the Yaris will be cancelled because the Camry is getting a big redesign. Put away your jump to conclusions mat. .

Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 1632032)

'15 WRX Limited (without keyless entry or nav is $30,700). BRZ Limited with keyless entry/ push button and navigation standard is $27,500.

Originally Posted by Wandr3r (Post 1631597)

Soo as far as 15 BRZ's... I have something for you guys. However I cannot elaborate until we get closer to launch. I will post when I can. ;)

Originally Posted by Wandr3r (Post 1626334)

I got a chance to speak with Ted Lalka, the VP of Marketing for Subaru Canada at the Employee demo for the 15' STI in Vancouver last month. I asked if we will see more power from this platform for 2015/16. He said there are no plans for a factory turbo or super charger from Subaru within the current cycle. I asked about a factory Ts version, He stated it would not be the same as the Japanese "IF" if was to ever happen. So a typical response I guess. So 15' sounds like it will be the same unless there is a limited run of 15' Ts variants, and it would be very limited.

Originally Posted by regal (Post 1631981)

Wow watching Toyotas FT1 video they are really separating themselves from the GT-86, they almost come out and say its not their sports car, you can't help but get the feeling our platform is done as far as a future with Toyota. I hope Subaru keeps it going.

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling (Post 1633031)

It was Toyota talking to an American audience. There is no Toyota sports car in America right now. The FR-S is a Scion. They make that distinction purposefully. Either way, the new Supra will be in a completely different class of cars and cost much more money. It doesn't affect the 86 platform at all.

Originally Posted by TrackRider54 (Post 1616038)

In typical Japanese fashion, you'll probably see a new color or some trim changes. I can't imagine there will be any major changes in the first 4 our 5 years. Just look at the Miata. It's been out for 25 years and is only on it's third generation.

Originally Posted by trevorovert (Post 1632578)

you mean like this

Originally Posted by Wandr3r (Post 1634366)

Pretty much... :thumbsup: For those of you that have already ordered the 15' do not worry, its not a turbo. Subaru will not up the power for these. Since I enjoy my job, can't say much but I will post details when I can.

Originally Posted by Wandr3r (Post 1634366)

Pretty much... :thumbsup: For those of you that have already ordered the 15' do not worry, its not a turbo. Subaru will not up the power for these. Since I enjoy my job, can't say much but I will post details when I can.

Originally Posted by TrackRider54 (Post 1618173)

When I saw the BRZ/FRS in person and test drove it, I immediately knew the demographic the car was aimed at. Me!

I'm 42, wife, child not in a car seat, and already have a "family car". This car is so scary similar to a Datsun 260z or 280z, early RX-7, Toyota Celica Supra, etc. All great cars from the late 70's and early 80's when guys my age were kids reading car mags or just getting our license.

The difference is, the twins have more power than those cars and obliterate them from a performance perspective. Even the best tires back in the 70's and 80's were far worse than the stock tires that come on the BRZ/FRS. Remember the Ferrari 308 from Magnum PI? Yeah...you do if you're my age. We all slobbered over that car. It wore 205/70-14 tires and made a whopping 255hp from a V8 and went 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds which was considered extremely fast back then and truth be told, it still is. Just because a V6 Camry can go faster doesn't mean it's as much fun doing it. I'd rather have a car that feels fast, than one that is fast.

Subaru/Toyota knew exactly who they were designing the car for. They really have the only game in town for those of us who are looking for a time machine of sorts. Yeah, I could buy a Mustang GT or a C6 Corvette, but I've driven them and they just feel huge and ungainly. I can't afford the maintenance on a BMW or Porsche.

Enter the BRZ/FRS. Just what I'm looking for. Inexpensive (relatively), cheap to own, cheap to maintain, good fuel mileage, reliable. If you drive this car like a sane person I see no reason why it wouldn't reward you with 200,000 miles.

Originally Posted by shishand (Post 1634508)

I disagree, the fact that they branded this car under "Scion" should say enough about its demographic: teens.

Originally Posted by imag (Post 1632668)

I will pay $39K for a ts with a supercharger. I would also happily pay $36K for a ts without a supercharger, because I can do a supercharger myself. I just don't want to have to do wheels, brakes, suspension, chassis stiffening *and* add power. I also want the higher resale value that would come from a factory modded car versus a personally modded car. Aftermarket mods are basically worthless when it comes to the secondary market.

That said, I agree with those who say most people won't pay $35K+. I am sure Toyota/Subaru agree with you too - and that's why most of the models will still be standard power, lower cost versions. It just makes sense to have a higher performance version, either this year or next, for those of us who are less price constrained.

As far as substitutes:

A WRX STI is not equal to a BRZ STI, even at the same price. One is a sports car; the other is a sedan.

A Cayman is a two seater, and it will cost more to maintain than a BRZ/FRS. I am sure I am not the only one who would prefer a top-of-the line BRZ/FRS at <$40K to a poverty spec Cayman at $45K. I get on the Porsche configurator and I end up speccing a $80K Cayman S, which is more than I really need to spend on a car. Call it irrational, but that's just how my brain works. I also like that I *could* fit a third person in the BRZ/FRS, while I have no option in the Cayman.


tl;dr: I think a high performance BRZ/FRS fills a nice niche in the market, and I do not think I am alone in wanting one.

Originally Posted by Jegan_V (Post 1634558)

Scion's intentions however may not end up being the true result. The FRS and tC do generally have a lower age demographic however its possible the FRS will have a older demographic than the tC does. The FRS has a bit more of an old school sense about it. Its not concerned about power but rather the fundamentals of driving which is why some people long for a car from the past as a good deal of newer cars are losing this as they're starting to become mobile iPads. The FRS is one of those cars that sort of brings those qualities to the 21st century. Its one of those cars that doesn't necessarily disagree about the notion that "things aren't made like they used to". So I can totally understand why someone middle aged or even someone elderly might also like it. The car itself wasn't intended to target an age demographic, rather it was targeting car enthusiasts and that doesn't have any age restrictions. Giving the 86 to Scion was more of Toyota's way of ensuring Scion didn't disappear tomorrow because it provides a 20,000 boost in sales that Scion otherwise would've have had.

The other Scions however...they tend to attract older people. The pure pricing policy is very much loved by old people, the original xB in particular was more of a hit with older people than their intended demographic. The iQ is another car I only see(and have seen) an elderly driver liking it. The xD is discontinued so its no longer relevant.

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech (Post 1635011)

Interesting what he did not say here - "no plans for turbo/supercharger" does not mean the same as "no power boost".

Originally Posted by Wandr3r (Post 1634366)

Pretty much... :thumbsup: For those of you that have already ordered the 15' do not worry, its not a turbo. Subaru will not up the power for these. Since I enjoy my job, can't say much but I will post details when I can.

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech (Post 1635011)

Interesting what he did not say here - "no plans for turbo/supercharger" does not mean the same as "no power boost".

Originally Posted by Rampage (Post 1635028)

Toyota does not historically add power bumps to its sports cars unless a totally new generation is introduced.

Originally Posted by imag (Post 1635346)

He also didn't say Toyota wouldn't do it ;)

Seriously though, I think any power boost would come from tuning or displacement increase. That doesn't mean I think it's coming this year.

Originally Posted by yo joshman (Post 1636011)

I agree with this statement. The "lack of power" public notion goin around will probably be dealt with by going with the pre existing 2.5 boxer engine with slight modifications. In my opinion that would cost the company the least amount of money to address the problem. Slapping on a turbo or supercharger would be too costly considering internal engine components must be strenghtened/has to meet strict emssion standards etc. Toyota can make a faster frs no problem...but try to make one on the cheap with stiff regulations ?? Thats a tall order. In the end the whole point of this car was to be like the original ae86 cheap/fun/reliable. In that sense i feel like the company did just that. I really dont see the problem some ppl have with this car...u need more power go add some...?

Originally Posted by shishand (Post 1634508)

I disagree, the fact that they branded this car under "Scion" should say enough about its demographic: teens.

And i am in the same boat, i wanted something nice looking, affordable and low cost maintenance.

Different trims of the engine will solve this! My wish: a trim with a 2.5 displacement with a better engine compression ratio, making more turbo/tuner friendly and 250hp w/ 230trq.


I hope i didn't come off as rude, it wasn't my attention!

Originally Posted by Jegan_V (Post 1636154)

Actually of those options, the turbo will be the one that's easiest to pass emissions regulations of the three. A larger displacement engine is better of the three on the fuel economy side(CAFE). The supercharger is the one that will get shafted because it does neither of those well. The issue with going turbo though...making sure it doesn't cause issues for the warranty department. Its the big reason why many would like to see a factory turbo rather than going aftermarket, having that powertrain warranty there is very reassuring. If there is going to be a big engine change, I do think its likely going to come in the form of a 2.5L, as this would be ideal to increase this car's power while at the same time for Subaru makes it easier to finally replace the EJ25 in their whole lineup including the WRX STi.

Originally Posted by Jegan_V (Post 1636154)

Actually of those options, the turbo will be the one that's easiest to pass emissions regulations of the three. A larger displacement engine is better of the three on the fuel economy side(CAFE). The supercharger is the one that will get shafted because it does neither of those well. The issue with going turbo though...making sure it doesn't cause issues for the warranty department. Its the big reason why many would like to see a factory turbo rather than going aftermarket, having that powertrain warranty there is very reassuring. If there is going to be a big engine change, I do think its likely going to come in the form of a 2.5L, as this would be ideal to increase this car's power while at the same time for Subaru makes it easier to finally replace the EJ25 in their whole lineup including the WRX STi.

Originally Posted by shishand (Post 1634508)

I disagree, the fact that they branded this car under "Scion" should say enough about its demographic: teens.

Originally Posted by Jegan_V (Post 1634558)

Scion's intentions however may not end up being the true result. The FRS and tC do generally have a lower age demographic however its possible the FRS will have a older demographic than the tC does.

The other Scions however...they tend to attract older people. The pure pricing policy is very much loved by old people, the original xB in particular was more of a hit with older people than their intended demographic. The iQ is another car I only see(and have seen) an elderly driver liking it. The xD is discontinued so its no longer relevant.

Originally Posted by regal (Post 1634826)

Lots of older Scion drivers around here, they have almost a Lexus appeal as being higher classed than the budget Toyota's.

Originally Posted by jjaisli (Post 1638874)

I have nothing in writing to actually back it up, but when I bought my FR-S, the sales rep told me that despite Scion's entire marketing strategy geared toward younger buyers, the reality is that the median Scion buyer is actually 53 years old. So the idea that Scions are purchased mainly by the under 25 crowd is, at least according to my dealer, largely a myth.

And for the record, I'm 43.

Originally Posted by Chattanooga FR-S (Post 1638940)

I wonder if some of those older buyers are buying them for their kids to drive?

Originally Posted by jjaisli (Post 1638874)

I have nothing in writing to actually back it up, but when I bought my FR-S, the sales rep told me that despite Scion's entire marketing strategy geared toward younger buyers, the reality is that the median Scion buyer is actually 53 years old. So the idea that Scions are purchased mainly by the under 25 crowd is, at least according to my dealer, largely a myth.

And for the record, I'm 43.

Originally Posted by Sleeperz (Post 1636580)

I disagree that the target market is teens, when most buyers are not teens since mosty could not afford a new car anyways.

It is a Scion because it does not have the reliablity of a Toyota.
It is a new platform more or less with a new engine with no history. Consumer Reports rates it low in reliability. Maybe next year it will be improved after working out the bugs.