Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Engine, Exhaust, Transmission (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   ecu flash? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40766)

Nightbringer 07-13-2013 09:52 AM
I didn't mean the bias comment as a personal attack, just that we all have personal opinions on a subject that's gotten heated lately. I think this has turned into a great opportunity here for some very beneficial real-world information. Excited to see where this goes! :popcorn:

chadstyle 07-13-2013 09:52 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Just so you can see a little teaser of the turbo cars.. John's run was run file #2 and was the best of the 3 runs on his tune. We were up to run 10 and you can see the gains. On run 11 he cracked 300 HP but I will leave the final numbers for him to post later.

Attachment 43878

Dynotronics1 07-13-2013 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadstyle (Post 1066376)
All of the cars that have been re tuned came in with Johns tune loaded and many revisions to get to that perfect tune dialed in. Then these cars were placed on a dyno and run a few times to get a solid baseline of Visconti's tune on these cars.

Once completed, Tony reflashed the car and started tuning. He made gains on every single run after. One car was in the 230-240 range with John's tune and when I left an hour later had cracked the 300 mark. Same car, same parts, same dyno, same day, just a different tune. That's not some small increase..that's HUGE!

The reason I offer up my car is this...I'm not running a single part from FA20Club or from Visconti. I have a Perrin CAI, intake tube, and full header back exhaust. I'm running the Borla UEL and a lightweight crank pulley. The standard mods before going FI and just like John said, and I agree with, the header/tune is the best bang for the buck. My car has quality parts and is set up well. It's not some FI beast at this point that most forum members will never have. It's "attainable" by the masses.

I think that makes it the perfect car for a comparison. I'll throw on an oil cooler before the event and turn over my keys to John and Tony and stand back and watch. If John wins, he doubles his money on a tune and makes a believer out of me. If Tony wins then he proves what I and many others have already seen with our own eyes.

It's a fair contest and I'm the one footing the bill. I'll even pay for the dyno time for as long as each of them need to get it dialed in. Obviously if I'm willing to lay out all this cash I'm doing it for the community and for what this thread is all about...

I don't think anyone can argue with the terms and setup of this being unfair in any way, shape, or form.
Not to defend anyone, but just as a point of interest; Making power on the dyno is simple on this car, but keeping that power in real world drive cycles, over a period of days, weeks, or even months, that's the real challenge.

BTW, JV, I'm not aware of any of the majors not giving free updates with tuning. I know you do, we always have, so who does not?

chadstyle 07-13-2013 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbringer (Post 1066417)
I didn't mean the bias comment as a personal attack, just that we all have personal opinions on a subject that's gotten heated lately. I think this has turned into a great opportunity here for some very beneficial real-world information. Excited to see where this goes! :popcorn:
Just so you know my background...I've been in the custom auto industry since I was 16 years old. Not just turning wrenches at that age but building full on demo cars for companies like Sony, Rockford, and many others. I had my own shop in Deerfield Beach, FL until 24 years old when I was scooped up by West Coast Customs. I worked there until the beginning of 2011 before deciding on spending less time working and more time with my family. I still do automotive design work for large corporations and I'm developing parts for Tesla now as a side project. I grew up in this industry and I have a solid understanding of all aspects of the automobile.

I eat, sleep, breath, and live cars. I love stuff like this and while debates may get heated the community wins as it pushes tuners to their limits with these motors and we see what their capabilities and weak points are. I for one would love to see a comparison like this just because I am such an enthusiast.

FastLane1000 07-13-2013 10:24 AM
The one time I spoke with John he was very helpful and professional and did not bash anyone. I hear good things about his tunes and service. All I hear about Visconti doing is tuning. Correct me if I'm wrong. What I like about Tony at FA20club is that he is building headers, turbo kits, intakes, motors, etc, in addition to tuning. Not only is he installing his products but he's also selling, installing, and tuning it as well as other manufacturer's products. He doesn't mind to tune for his header or turbo kit or someone elses. He's glad to sell you a header or supercharger from another manufacturer. He has experience with this platform in many areas from start to finish. Sales/tech support, instalation, and tuning the final product. He's a go to guy for all your needs. This is not to speak negatively of anyone. If anything perhaps doing only tuning can be a benefit. However, I prefer the all around knowledge and experience that comes from being a complete shop.

Nightbringer 07-13-2013 10:34 AM
Broad knowledge is definitely a boon. I'm just hoping Tony and John both agree to do this comparison. I have to respect Chadstyles for putting this out here and covering all the expenses from his own pocket. We're all enthusiasts and passionate about these cars. We'll go a lot further through camaraderie instead of confrontation. Chad's tuner-shootout idea is the first forward progress I've seen on this debate in a year. What say the Master Tuners?

Visconti 07-14-2013 08:39 PM
Stuff like this is requested from time to time. I don't have time for games or who makes more power crap.

Power is only one key to the puzzle.

My results speaks enough

No need for a pissing match

chadstyle 07-14-2013 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visconti (Post 1069119)
Stuff like this is requested from time to time. I don't have time for games or who makes more power crap.

Power is only one key to the puzzle.

My results speaks enough

No need for a pissing match
For once, we agree 100%. Your results say it all.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41511

Visconti 07-14-2013 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadstyle (Post 1069126)
For once, we agree 100%. Your results say it all.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41511
Don't know what your point is.

I was told over a month ago if I couldn't make it to FL Tony was going to tune those cars.

My customers rather large GTR build got pushed back and I simply couldn't make it over there.

Apparently they need injector cranking settings now.. Just another example power isn't everything


John

Sportsguy83 07-14-2013 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visconti (Post 1069184)

Apparently they need injector cranking settings now.. Just another example power isn't everything


John
And it would not take you a minute to send them.... I believe we never had any problems, I appreciate the time you spent tuning my car. It didn't work out. Is that enough to hold a grudge with me and not get that calibration over so my car starts fine 100% of the time? You know I am hostage of your decision (to send it or not) because well, This are your injectors....

Cold cranking is fine, hot cranking could be better...

I believe I didn't bash you in the thread, I posted the truth and facts of what happen. I don't hold a grudge with you, like I said in the thread, you were always very quick to answer my calls or request and I do appreciate it.

I only hope you can see past your rivalry with Tony and help me out.

Visconti 07-14-2013 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsguy83 (Post 1069289)
And it would not take you a minute to send them.... I believe we never had any problems, I appreciate the time you spent tuning my car. It didn't work out. Is that enough to hold a grudge with me and not get that calibration over so my car starts fine 100% of the time? You know I am hostage of your decision (to send it or not) because well, This are your injectors....

Cold cranking is fine, hot cranking could be better...

I believe I didn't bash you in the thread, I posted the truth and facts of what happen. I don't hold a grudge with you, like I said in the thread, you were always very quick to answer my calls or request and I do appreciate it.

I only hope you can see past your rivalry with Tony and help me out.
I'm not holding a tuning 101 class here on the forum, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to.

The injectors you have are Bosch and have the same settings as the DW , ID or FIC.. Because they all Bosch based.. For the most part balancing is what sets them a part

If you or Tony needed info from me you or him should have or could have called, PM'ed, texted etc..

Instead you make a post asking about it, I only saw your thread because I was feeding one of the trolls here in this thread.

Just like most of the stuff I've done, nothing is given to me, I'm have to start from scratch.. I spent several hours trying to figure out how to make those injectors start , hot and cold...idle ..and I still don't think it's as good as it can be.

Your a cool dude but let's flip this the other way, how about Tony emails me your tune and I'll put the injector settings in for you..then problem solved.

But this is no different than me selling a EBCS for controlling boost.. It's a part I sell, others sell it.. I don't tell people how to setup the boost control tables or the amount of wastegate duty you need to make desired boost.. It's the tuners job.. Tuning can be a bitch, but it's what a few of us signed up for

John

Sportsguy83 07-14-2013 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visconti (Post 1069314)

If you or Tony needed info from me you or him should have or could have called, PM'ed, texted etc..

Instead you make a post asking about it, I only saw your thread because I was feeding one of the trolls here in this thread.
Its ok, I expected this response. Now just so you know, I didn't PM or texted you because you are stupidly busy and could only imagine the big fuck you I would have received if I asked for help in a tune that is not yours (take time away from your work to work on another tuner's tune)... Still took a chance in the forum so you read it in YOUR time, whenever you were doing nothing and was just reading around.

I guess I'll live with it. Until further notice.

Visconti 07-14-2013 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsguy83 (Post 1069399)
Its ok, I expected this response. Now just so you know, I didn't PM or texted you because you are stupidly busy and could only imagine the big fuck you I would have received if I asked for help in a tune that is not yours (take time away from your work to work on another tuner's tune)... Still took a chance in the forum so you read it in YOUR time, whenever you were doing nothing and was just reading around.

I guess I'll live with it. Until further notice.
Honestly I don't follow members journals as much as I would like, I stay in the ecu section for the most part.

I've always responded to your texts.. If someone ever needs a bone or a favor.. Asking on the forum is not the place.. You would have been much better off asking me over the phone.. I don't know a single person that likes being put on the spot, which you kinda did , if you wanted to or not

John

Sportsguy83 07-14-2013 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visconti (Post 1069405)
Honestly I don't follow members journals as much as I would like, I stay in the ecu section for the most part.

I've always responded to your texts.. If someone ever needs a bone or a favor.. Asking on the forum is not the place.. You would have been much better off asking me over the phone.. I don't know a single person that likes being put on the spot, which you kinda did , if you wanted to or not

John
I dont know in what spot I put you.... Regardless, you are not willing to help me now because I didnt seek out help the way you wanted.

I didnt write any lies, didnt bash you or anyone, just posted facts.

And I reiterate, I even posted that, You always responded to my texts....


Whats done is done. Good luck with everything and again thanks for the help you provided to my car.


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