Noooo! In order for me to run ATF in my car for twenty miles I need you to give me a new engine or a brand new car. That's the very least I'll consider. ;)

Look...would I be happy if this happened to me? No. Would I work it like it was the Kennedy assassination? No.

This made me smile. Hah

Update us OP :popcorn:. If nothing works out, make a video and we should help make it go viral. Help out a fellow twin.

You've been arguing against that the whole thread, no? Did I miss something?

In the case of a late model car like this, I would absolutely rather buy a used car with no stories than have to worry if the dealership that screwed up something as simple as an oil change, is actually capable of swapping a long block without messing something else up. Probably won't be a lot, but I'd ask for some diminshed value.

Yes. You missed the day they taught sarcasm at school.

I was the instructor. I know for a fact you were absent.

Good luck with this:

WTS: 2013 Scion FR-S, 23K miles. First oil change at 8K with 5 quarts of ATF, only driven for 2 hours before actual oil used. Asking 18K, willing to accept 10k.

You always have to compare the actual service records against the CarFax history. CarFax is very vague, and they only catch work done at the dealer or accident reports by VIN. Repairs at indie shops, or body damage that didn't result in a police accident report doesn't make it.

DOV would be a stretch.

I'm 12. What is this?

Well this was said : Since I was over 10 miles away they wanted to tow it "because it may do damage to the car"

Im assuming they were worried about the engine. Im also assuming they know potencial domage transmission fluid could do the engine but maybe they dont know ? Maybe you do know but you said an extended warranty isnt unreasonable. So that being said, personally would prefer cash over an extended warranty and I gave 2 arguments so he can get the most of it.

To get a clear picture, we need to know from a good source if transmission fluid can "destroy" or harm this engine on the long run.

Wrong guy. I've never been to truck driving school.

Waiting for someone knowledgeable in fluid dynamics to speak up.

stop fighting over the internet. give the guy advice and move on

It's fair to state that they don't know what the effects are because it's such an odd occurrence, but wanted to err on the side of caution and flat bed the car. It certainly wasn't GOOD for the car, obviously.

I think you have two options before you:

1) Have the engine torn down, the parts cleaned and inspected by a Subaru tech, and have the area Subaru factory rep sign off on the reassembled engine.

2) Take it on faith that no permanent harm was done, have the shop do a couple of short interval oil and filter changes and accept the extended warranty.

Option one just seems horribly invasive and is likely to turn up nothing, plus it'll tie the car up for a couple of weeks. Let me follow up with my brother tomorrow. He's a great tech and his advice is always spot on.

^^^ :popcorn:

Well I hope you're all happy now. The Internet Police just showed up. Nice work everyone.

Neither have I! Unless it was breaking 939 tires for the lazy slags who were supposed to be doing the job. And there was sarcasm.

Okay, I did some research on this. Apparently ATF is thinner than motor oil, and it is a common practice on higher mileage engines to run a mixture of ATF and oil for a short period to clean sludge out of the engine, then do a couple of regular oil changes to flush any remaining ATF out: This was posted in response to a guy who had accidentally used ATF instead of motor coil.

"Actually, people used to put 'some' transmission fluid in the engine oil right before an oil change because trans fluid helps clean the gunk out.

I wouldn't keep it in there but I wouldn't have any problem with driving it for a couple days then getting an oil change."

Source:
ASE Master Tech for 22 years.

So it doesn't seem like the two fluids are totally incompatible. If they mix together readily then they can be flushed out together as well.

Hey man...let's leave the wives and girlfriends out of it.

So I read your post and have skipped all the replies. So to my opinion you should accept a used FRS with similar condition as yours and ask for down payment on that car of the money you have already paid. And than get a payment plan of same as your current. Ex; same monthley payment and interest. and carry on from there. If they can't find one used like yours and they refuse to switch the motor or give you good deal on new FRS than get a lawyer.

Dude, the OP is long gone. He sold the FRS, bought a Prius and is living in a commune in Seattle where he's "examining his sexuality" whatever that means.

It all happened back on page #3.

Skipping the replies means that you missed all the good stuff

Awesome thread guys. I have to get some sleep or I'll be even less effective at work tomorrow than usual.

Sarcasm is an old, wooden ship.

"Some" ATF in an engine is not the same as "all ATF". Notice how everyone who does that uses the ATF as an oil solvent? I'd rather have oily gunk in my engine than a solvent. Ever seen a modern engine that has used a modern engine oil with "gunk" in it?

Whatever. 20 bucks just waiting.

ETA: There is (or was) an self-described ASE master tech posting on this very site I would not let put air in my tires.

The answer was in response to someone who had accidentally filled his crankcase with ATF. The tech was illustrating that it was not uncommon to intentionally mix ATF and oil, and as a result his opinion was that running straight ATF for a short period was not harmful. I posted it to give the OP some reassurance that it's possible all is not lost.

He may not be correct, just another piece of information to consider that tends to support the theory that this was not a catastrophic event, and that maybe some form of compensation that falls between say $20 and a new engine might make sense. Like maybe an extended warranty on the engine and a sincere apology for the inconvenience. I'd take your twenty but I don't have an FRS. I bought a 2015 for one of my kids because they're inexpensive and looked like fun.

Shit, that goes double for your kid then. 40 if the lets you do it! To be clear, OP's engine is probably OK, minus about 10K of expected life. The "experts" at the dealer f-ed up. I'd walk away happy with free scheduled oil changes forever and double the powertrain warranty. But I'd be REAL pissed off.

OP, get it fixed and drive the wheels off the thing.

We used to put ATF in 5 ton military cargo trucks when that was all we had on hand (Cummins). And we put motor oil in the auto transmissions (Allisons). And a couple times had to substitute mineral oil cause we ran dry and it got us going for a week. For a time all the cargo fleet used ONLY 30w oil in everything on the trucks.

I say this because we were taught all these lubes have similar base composition and will interchange. An expert could be found- I'm sure - that would say no harm done.

Just as an aside, my dealers service department has been a true pleasure compared to the Hyundai service departments I visited with my old car. One time I was told my car didn't have a switching relay for the turn signals.

Lawyer up!

What did your insurance say about it? Ideally, your insurance would take care of it (new motor most likely), then claim indemnity against the dealer's insurance. But see what they can do for you first. Else, you can find out who dealer's insurance is, and call them directly to notify them about it.

Lastly, the manager that told you you could get a new motor, that may be a legally enforceable oral contract if you accepted right then and there. However, since you waited, they could withdraw the offer (which they apparently did), so you're SOL on that option. The only thing left is option #1.

As other's have mentioned, the composition is similar, transmission oil is just really thick oil. unless you tried to rev it up, likely no harm done. Extending warranty might not be bad.

Dude, I found your source. He put 1 quart of ATF into the engine and was told people used to use that to degunk.
That's a big difference from running straight ATF as a total substitute for the proper oil. We need a expert tribologist, but I bet he would say it's entirely conceivable the engine would suffer premature wear from this accident. It's not like it got driven 30 miles with
10w30 instead of 0w20, transmission fluid is far from meeting the manufacturer specified lubrication.



https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...3174553AAZEE38

That escalated quickly!

Motor T dudes. Seems we took better care of your shit than you did. Our trucks were always up, now I know why!

Mmm, metal on metal.

Congratulations Columbo. I wasn't hiding the source. The implication for the OP would be that the short duration of exposure to ATF instead of oil in his car was not likely to be detrimental.

Mag Moss only prevents manufacturers from denying warranty claims for mods that were not material to the failure. However, failures that are linked materially to the mod are not protected. For example, if you install an aftermarket blower and you blow a rod, they can deny that claim. If you install an aftermarket brake kit and a strut fails, they can't deny that claim based on just the mod.

Presently, Audi and Mercedes are able to scan their ECU's and detect not only a performance upgrade program installed, but also if the ECU has ever been flashed at all. They're voiding powertrain warranties on those cars and inserting an electronic flag on the car that warns any tech who connects a scan tool that the car has no powertrain warranty and to stop work and return the car to the customer.

Yeah, the bit about reduced expected engine life is pure conjecture, but I agree the engine internally is probably fine (and probably a little cleaner).

Things take an ugly turn when folks start quoting Ron Burgundy.

Read the OP, that's just crappy, sorry to hear. Didn't get to read all the rest yet, but Which dealership was this at in Houston? As a H-town native I would like to know for future reference, as would others I'm sure.

Yeah, it wasn't a whole crankcase as FRS Dad pretended. One quart mixed in is definitely not the same as a whole fill.

People used to use ATF to clean out high mileage engines in the days when motor oil lacked the detergents we have today. My grandfather used to do that. One quart mixed in with the regular motor oil would do the trick, and you didn't do it every oil change. You only did it after tens of thousands of miles. You certainly didn't fill your whole crankcase with it and run the engine with no oil, not even for 20 miles.

Now think about that for a minute. One quart diluted in four or five quarts was enough to clean out the gunk that had built up with 1960s or 1970s era oil after 60K or 80K miles. That should give you an idea of how caustic this detergent is.

The problem for the OP is that the engine didn't grenade. What I would be afraid of instead is that the engine was subtly damaged so that performance will degrade over time, which would be difficult to make a claim for. Even if he took the 100K mile warranty, that wouldn't help him if the engine just wasn't running at its highest efficiency and was vaguely sluggish, or just "not quite right." It also doesn't help him if the car really should last 250K miles and it grenades after 101K.

If I were the OP I would want to unload this car and get a replacement that I could be confident in. It wouldn't be honest to sell this car to someone else without disclosing the ATF incident, and it's going to be difficult to sell it if it were disclosed. Therefore, to be fair, the dealership should assume that responsibility by buying the car back from the guy and finding him a replacement. At 8400 miles, I don't think it's unreasonable for that replacement to be new. Then, once they've taken the damaged car back, they can sell it and either be the dishonest ones or take the loss if they're not.